Poll #2: SC1/SC2

[MNbiker]

This is a poll to gauge member opinions about potential changes to SC1/SC2 classes. Participation in these classes has been light. (average of 4 cars per event for SC1, zero entrants all year for SC2). Do we need them? How can we change the rules to attract more drivers?

Thanks!

-Steve Garnjobst

For those who don't understand the topic of this poll, please read through the following thread, which contains a number of proposals for changes to the SC1 & SC2 classes.
http://forum.mnautox.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=840

[914 Dave]

Steve- I take all the time to read all the posts, review the rules, express thoughts, and now you start a poll so my great writting skills go to waste... JUST KIDDING!!!
Could you explain in more detail what is intended by the option to create an indexed street tire class- would this be for the SC type cars, or all street tire cars?

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by 914 Dave
Steve- I take all the time to read all the posts, review the rules, express thoughts, and now you start a poll so my great writting skills go to waste... JUST KIDDING!!!
Could you explain in more detail what is intended by the option to create an indexed street tire class- would this be for the SC type cars, or all street tire cars?

Nope, your writing skills didn't go to waste. They're part of the ideas & suggestions I'll use to try & come up with some rules everyone can live with.

As for this particular poll, the indexed class would be a "replacement" for the SC classes. However, there's really no reason we'd necessarily have to limit the type of car that would run to just SC-type cars.

Note - there's also an "index class" question on the poll for Stock Street Tire classes. The two could be one in the same, but not necessarily. I'm just trying to see if there's any kind of consensus (or at least strong majority opinion) on these rules questions, as the suggestions have been all over the map.

-Steve

[914 Dave]

So if I'm reading you right:


No decision has been made as of right NOW.

Suggestions to the club are not even finalized at this point in time.

Still kicking around ideas.

There could still end up being a full range of street tire classes- ast to hst.

There could still end up being the 2 SC classes.

There could be 3 or so indexed street tire groups.

SC could be part of those groups or not.

There could be a single indexed SC type class.


As I mentioned in my last post, I have a clue of the STS prep, but how does STX differ? I'd like to know this before casting a vote on this poll. Would the 2 mega miatas fit in there, Ed's supercharged, the the (sorry I forgot your name) turbo'd one? Would the 914 fit there if SC'd or turbo'd or motor swapped?

Thanks-

David

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by 914 Dave
As I mentioned in my last post, I have a clue of the STS prep, but how does STX differ? I'd like to know this before casting a vote on this poll. Would the 2 mega miatas fit in there, Ed's supercharged, the the (sorry I forgot your name) turbo'd one? Would the 914 fit there if SC'd or turbo'd or motor swapped?


STX is not an option for ANY 2-seat sports cars. Think of STX as STS on steroids - more horsepower, a bit wider tires. The target cars are 4 seaters with forced induction engines of 2.0L or less & naturally aspirated engines of 5.0L or less. Popular cars in STX include: Subaru WRX, Mini Cooper S, Integra Type R, Subaru 2.5RS, BMW 325i, BMW E30 M3, Mustang 5.0, Camaro & Firebird w/305, Sentra SE-R Spec V, Eclipse/Talon turbo.

The best place for the 2 mega-Miata's to play is SM2 - a class we would pick up if we adopt the SCCA Solo2 rules. Or they could run in an indexed Street Tire class, if we had one.

Hope this helps!

-Steve

[1/2mv^2]

All I want for XMas is SM2... And a set of Tein Flex dampers... And free headwork... And some 15x7.5 9lb wheels with hoosiers... and a pony.

[914 Dave]

Ed: you don't want much from santa, do you? Don't you have enough "ponies" as it is already?...

Steve: I would understand STS/STX to be 4 seater classes. One of the poll options is to add a sort of STS2/STX2 for the 2 seaters. Would this be any better/worse than adopting the official SCCA book of rules? I don't have one, and really don't know what all the classes we would be taking on would be. With the SCCA rules, would we have more or less classes than now? Does SCCA have any provision for street tires? Would we have any more or less classes with no or say, less than 3 entrants than we do now? I realize that we can't really answer all questions now, but we can give our best guess.

I also realize that you jumped in with both feet and then some with the WRX and SCCA events. Keep in mind the the simple minds of many of the MAC members, myself included. I have spent some time reading and re-reading the club rules, but an not a member of SCCA, and have somewhere from little to no clue as to what my options would be under their rules. I hear they would be just about the same as now in many cases, but until I can see the line items on paper, I'll not be sure. Maybe start another thread noting the specific differences between current MAC, and proposed SCCA. I know you probably don't know every last detail of SCCA rules for every last class, and wouldn't hold you to it, but to hit the high spots would be helpful for me, and others as well, I would think. We could then have an idea of what the differences were, and how many classes we would be taking on, and just how many different places our car might fit. For example, not including tires, with some minor changes, the 914 could run in SI, CST, CS, CSP, SC1, if allowed to play with the 4 seaters, STS. How competitive it would be in each class is anyones guess, (mainly depending on who is driving, me or Pat W.) and I expect there may be other cars, 2 seaters or otherwise, that would have several options for classing.

This is interesting. Thanks for your input.

David.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by 914 Dave
Steve: I would understand STS/STX to be 4 seater classes. One of the poll options is to add a sort of STS2/STX2 for the 2 seaters. Would this be any better/worse than adopting the official SCCA book of rules?.........With the SCCA rules, would we have more or less classes than now? Does SCCA have any provision for street tires? Would we have any more or less classes with no or say, less than 3 entrants than we do now? .......

....Maybe start another thread noting the specific differences between current MAC, and proposed SCCA........We could then have an idea of what the differences were, and how many classes we would be taking on, and just how many different places our car might fit. For example, not including tires, with some minor changes, the 914 could run in SI, CST, CS, CSP, SC1, if allowed to play with the 4 seaters, STS......

Lots of good questions! First, regarding a comparison of SCCA & MAC rules. I can put something like that together, along with a formal written proposal for the Rules Meeting. It will be helpful in explaining the proposed changes to Met Council members as well.

The only current SCCA Street Tire classes are STS & STX. However, the rules do indicate regions may create their own Street Tire-based classes. Many clubs do so.

Regarding class count, if we eliminate the Ladies and Kart classes (there seems to be a consensus on doing both), then we don't pick up many additional classes. In fact, if we eliminated all the Stock Street Tire Classes (a totally undecided issue at this point), the number of classes might actually go down. The two classes of note we would pick up are STX and SM2.

It's hard to say for sure, but I don't think adopting the SCCA rules will have much impact on class distribution/size. I anticipate STX & SM2 would be very popular classes at MAC events. These two classes provide a home for cars that haven't really had a good place to play under the current rules. For example, my car has often been the only ESP car running at several MAC events. However, there would likely be several STX cars at any event.

What we do with SC1/SC2 likely won't impact things too much, as only 4 cars ran more than 1 event in SC this year.

What we do with the Stock Street Tire classes will have, by far, the greatest impact on how cars are distributed among the classes. A lot of cars have been running in the SST classes, and there doesn't yet appear to be a consensus on what to do with them.

The most logical classes for your car would be CS, CSP, SM2 (if you want to get mod-happy) or an SC-type class (if we vote to put one in the rules for 2004).