electronic superchargers

[applebit]

The rules state any forced induction... This would seem to include the electric superchargers that 'force' 1/2 psi...

I noticed that SCCA seems to allow these electric superchargers without complaints of class changes... What exactly is the stand to take on something like this? I personally would like to try one out and at $299 they aren't a bad thing to try out... But it's silly to spend the money if I'll get moved out of a class I want to stay in to drop the intake pressure...

[Bernardus]

Whoa! Electric supercharger? Now that's an idea! This is the first I've heard of it. Sounds great! Where can I find more info about it?

I imagine they're relatively easy to install. Doesn't rob horsepower from the engine too! Plus they operate independently from engine rpm, so it can be set to provide constant boost regardless of rpm. Do they require bigger alternator or battery? I suspect they must eat up a lot of current.

[applebit]

www.electricsupercharger.com/

[Dave Keillor]

IF the SCCA doesn't care about this product (I don't know whether or not they do) it's because it doesn't work. In the Q&A on the manufacturer's website they state that "The eRAM produces less than ½ PSI." What kind of boost is that? Save your money for something that works.

Dave Keillor

[Jon Kotek]

Saw this on Miata.net, A guy picked one up right before 'Dyno Days' without it installed he was getting 110 HP after installing it, 108 HP. The theory being that the load on the alternator was enough to cause a 2HP drop. Maybe if you ran constant loss you could see something, but I doubt it LOL.

Jon:p

[applebit]

Jon,

Most electric superchargers run only 150 cfm

This one runs 750 cfm

Check out the website and the demo video....

[1/2mv^2]

Please buy one - I'll bring my spare boost gauge, and we can see if its really producing 1/2 PSI...

Is the 750 CFM into atmospheric pressure, or into the 1/2 PSI pressure?

I love these sorts of products!

What kind of car is this going on?

I would think that $300 would be better spent on tires, tho...

[washburn]

What makes you say that SCCA does not care? That could not be further from the truth. Just like any club, local regions are free to allow anything they want, but the SCCA rule book is exceptionally clear on this. You go straight to MOD.

Pat

[applebit]

Well, I don't mean don't care but it isn't argued

[washburn]

By who? Do you have a particular instance in mind that you can relay? What would you do if you saw a freakin' supercharger on your competitors car? C'mon, it's forced induction...of course it's illegal.

Spend your money on an Evolution school or travel to more events outside your region if you want to get faster. There is no magic gadget out there that will make you faster, only practice and diligence.

Pat

[rdub]

pat,you're beautiful,these "silly" items come up for sale all the time.Promising you will be an instant winner.Example:
Years ago I took apart a Judson ignition booster, it was just a big wire jumper,hidden in a fancy aluminum housing!$59.95, no performance gain,
If or when the SCCA sees one of these,you will go directly to "MOD jail"
It is mechanically forced induction (although a lame attempt)
My 2 cents here, horsepower is rarely the answer to going fast at an autox

[Bob Fogt]

Sez you, Pat! What about those little circular magnet thingies that you put around the fuel lines to realign the energy molecules in the gas?! You know, the ones that allow your engine to take advantage of all the "free electrons" that normal fuel systems just throw out the tailpipe. They don't teach you THAT at Evolution School!

[Bill Owen]

This sounds as silly as those "Tornado" hollow turbine cylinders you install in your airbox to improve HP. Good grief

[washburn]

Bob, I will protest you immediately if I see one of those 4th of July rocket powered cars sticking out the back of your TT. That is clearly rocket booster assist and you should be in Mod. :)

Pat

[gts24]

kudos to everyone that has logged on saying this is a joke.


It is a complete farce. Just like the stupid tornado thing that you put in your intake to "swirl" air around.

Actual independant dyno's have proven this stuff to be complete BS.... so spend your money elsewhere just like was mentioned above

[SaturnRaycer]

Wow, I thought all the "snake-oil" salesmen were dead! $300 for a fan to go between the airfilter and the airflow meter! P.T. Barnum really was right - and these guys are laughing all the way to the bank. :p

[Dave Keillor]

Hey folks, don't be so skeptical! These electric supercharger folks have all the data on their website, so it must be legit. If it's on the the web it must be true.

There is a downside to these types of devices, though. Awhile back I bought about 30 devices of various types, each claiming 20-50 additional horsepower. I figured that if one was good, lots would be better. Well, that was only partly correct. After bolting them all on the Miata I did a dyno run and verified 900 hp at the rear wheels. I think there was some kind of horsepower synergy at work.

However, I soon discovered the downside. All the stuff I bolted on added about 400 pounds to the front of the car and in a Miata that ain't good. With the extreme front weight bias and all that horsepower, I had total wheelspin and terminal oversteer. Reluctantely I took them all off. I now see the error of my ways and the truth of Bob Hall's (one of the developers of the Miata) favorite saying, "If you can go fast with 90 hp, 900 won't help you."

Btw, back in the gas crisis days I had a similar experience with my wife's 400 ci Grand Am. I installed 10 gas saving devices each of which produced a 20-25% improvement in gas mileage. The problem was that the 200-250% improvement in mileage meant I had to stop and empty the tank every few miles. Bummer.

Dave Keillor

[gts24]

Originally posted by Dave Keillor


Hey folks, don't be so skeptical! These electric supercharger folks have all the data on their website, so it must be legit. If it's on the the web it must be true.

There is a downside to these types of devices, though. Awhile back I bought about 30 devices of various types, each claiming 20-50 additional horsepower. I figured that if one was good, lots would be better. Well, that was only partly correct. After bolting them all on the Miata I did a dyno run and verified 900 hp at the rear wheels. I think there was some kind of horsepower synergy at work.

However, I soon discovered the downside. All the stuff I bolted on added about 400 pounds to the front of the car and in a Miata that ain't good. With the extreme front weight bias and all that horsepower, I had total wheelspin and terminal oversteer. Reluctantely I took them all off. I now see the error of my ways and the truth of Bob Hall's (one of the developers of the Miata) favorite saying, "If you can go fast with 90 hp, 900 won't help you."

Btw, back in the gas crisis days I had a similar experience with my wife's 400 ci Grand Am. I installed 10 gas saving devices each of which produced a 20-25% improvement in gas mileage. The problem was that the 200-250% improvement in mileage meant I had to stop and empty the tank every few miles. Bummer.

Dave Keillor


LOL... very nice

[Bernardus]

Well, that particular product may be a joke. But I think the idea isn't neccessarily that bad. Of course it needs to be much more powerful than that product, about the equivalent of low pressure turbo in some cars. Maybe 5 psi or so. Benefits would include not being related to engine rpm, so the boost can be optimized for all engine rpm, especially for lower rpm. Plus there's no parasitic load on engine. May not do much for total peak power, but ought to help drivability a lot, making small engine feels like much bigger engine.
Of course the alternator must be much bigger than standard, and maybe even some special batteries (or just more batteries) required. Don't know how much a parasitic load a really big alternator (say 3-5 times more current) would place on an engine

[Dave Keillor]

Sorry, Bernadus, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. First, to make any difference a supercharger needs to move a lot of air. An engine is really just a big air pump and you need to add a lot of additional air to get positive boost. Moving a lot of air takes power that has to come from somewhere.

In a short, transient condition it can come from a bank of batteries, but the energy extracted from the batteries has be replaced at some point in time -- most likely by a power consuming alternator run by the engine. The steady state is much the same -- the energy has to come from somewhere.

The real problem with these mickey-mouse devices is the horsepower required to be effective -- you're not going to get it from your electrical system. It takes 746 watts to generate 1 hp assuming 100% efficiency. Electric motors are very efficient, so let's assume 1,000 watts per horsepower. At 12 volts this is around 80 amps per hp. Of course, one horsepower isn't going to generate enough boost to make a difference, so multiply the 80 amps by some number greater than 1 -- 10 maybe? Therein lies the problem.

If this were an easy fix for more power, you'd see the manufacturers doing this. Or maybe they've just put it on the shelf with the 100 mpg carburetor. :D

Dave Keillor

[phile]

Originally posted by Dave Keillor


Sorry, Bernadus, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. First, to make any difference a supercharger needs to move a lot of air. An engine is really just a big air pump and you need to add a lot of additional air to get positive boost. Moving a lot of air takes power that has to come from somewhere.


Dave Keillor

Any method to increase power involves burning more fuel.

In the sixties they sold superchargers powered by a gas turbine. The gas turbine was fueled by propane. Never actually saw one. They made some real power, but you did have to cary a propane tank,so there is more weight involved.

Phil Ethier

[ZETECF1]

Went out to their site. I think this is the biggest joke I've ever heard of. Like every one else I say save your money for some this that works...

[applebit]

You may be right on it not worth the money.... I was more curious because this forced induction rule that was adapted is interesting.

If I ever really wanted to get more power out of my Porsche I used to have the option to bolt on a supercharger.... But since this rule came into play it would not allow me to. And since this is a Porsche I would be forced into modified under the new rules...

I don't mind... I mean, if I really wanted to I could bolt in the 3.0 liter engine with 236 bhp from the factory... I just always wanted to keep the 2.0 liter :-)

C'ya all in the morning at MOWOG 4! :D