Open Track Event - BIR 9/18/06 [Archive] - Minnesota Autosports Club

96HawkCnvt

08-14-2006, 10:25 PM

Figured that I would log on here and invite you guys to a track event that we have coming up. Hope some of you can make it. Let me know if you have any questions.

Here are a few details:

Event Date: 9/18/06 (Monday)
Track: Brainerd International Raceway
Open to any/all car types. Must have a completed tech inspection, helmet etc. as is typical. Unlike some other groups that run up at BIR, we will have corner workers & a safety crew. Instruction & mentors for those that are new will also be made available. Safety is always #1. Please read carefully the information on the registration page as well.

More details to come. We are working on a special rate with a hotel in the area etc.

This is IMPORTANT:

With the relatively short time before the event, we must quickly get people registered. Cost for this event is $195 by check or $200 if paying via PayPal. We need at least 40 participants in order to make this happen. If we cannot get 40 paid in a short period of time, all money will be refunded with the exception of PayPal fees.

Register Now (http://www.rmarshall.com/ttmevent.html)

Thanks,
Todd

651-203-8009

EWAustin

08-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Sounds interesting,
How much on-track time can one expect? Assuming that said individual has required newbie mentor on board as well?

RayK

08-14-2006, 10:39 PM

It's a great way to run on a real nice race track. All kinds of cars run in HPDE's and you don't need a race car. Just good tires, brakes, suspension.

There will people to show you the line on the corners and how to drive the track safely. Safety is #1. You'll get a solid couple of hours of time on the track. Almost too much fun. :D

Not a race and letting faster cars pass is encouraged.

Todd organizes the events and does all the work. Good guy and it's fun bs'ing about the track and cars between sessions on the track.

Ray

96HawkCnvt

08-14-2006, 10:40 PM

Sounds interesting,
How much on-track time can one expect? Assuming that said individual has required newbie mentor on board as well?

Well, it's typical for drivers to get tired out and stop early. At BIR, we have had participants put on over 300 miles. Schedule is not nailed down yet, but typically we split things up into 20 or 30 minute sessions through about 2:00 pm and then if all is going well we open the track for the remainder of the day.

Lots of track time to be had. A GREAT time!

Todd

RayK

08-14-2006, 10:42 PM

Sounds interesting,
How much on-track time can one expect? Assuming that said individual has required newbie mentor on board as well?

Usually 20-30 mins per session and you will get 4-6 sessions and probably some open track time at the end of the day where anyone can run in the session.

Ray

RayK

08-14-2006, 10:48 PM

BIR is a great track for cars like Miata's. From Turn 3 through Turn 9, it's a sports car delight.

FOCUS

08-15-2006, 05:49 AM

Do you guys run the full front straight or do you have a chicane before turn 1?

phile

08-15-2006, 06:29 AM

Do you guys run the full front straight or do you have a chicane before turn 1?
A chicane berfore One is pretty pointless, since virtually every car made can take One wide open. I suggest caution in Two. The exit of Two seems to be where people have expensive issues.

96HawkCnvt

08-15-2006, 08:48 AM

A chicane berfore One is pretty pointless, since virtually every car made can take One wide open. I suggest caution in Two. The exit of Two seems to be where people have expensive issues.

We use the entire front straight although I must say that I don't think there are too many in our group willing to take turn 1 without at least lifting. And yep, turn 2 will get you puckered pretty good if you are in over your head.

Todd

FOCUS

08-15-2006, 11:49 AM

A chicane before turn 1 would really add something to a very boring section of racetrack. Slowing down for a chicane in 1 will slow you down for 2 too. I was bumped off 1 on a motorcycle going 125 mph and I had to muster everything I knew about riding to keep it on 2 wheels. I got a standing ovation from the corner workers.

RayK

08-15-2006, 04:41 PM

I agree with Phile that a chicane isn't necessary and could be a hazard with people getting on the track and up to speed.

Turn 1 and 2 aren't bad if you don't sneak in early and then have to lift on the backside of the turn. That will get you in a world of trouble, particullary in 2. Late apexes are safe apexes with proper entry speed. You want to maintain / accelerate in the turn to keep the weight transfer on the back of the car. Start on a reasonable speed like 90 mph for turn 1 and run the line. If your hitting the apex correctly and your exit is fine, up the speed by 5 mph for the next lap. If you don't run the line correctly and hit the apex, do it again at the same speed until you get it right before moving up another 5 mph.

You should be done braking and in the correct gear ready to accelerate when starting your turn and use power to control the exit point.

If you have brake issues or overcook it going into a turn, go straight off the track so you don't catch a wheel and roll it. Turn 3 is probably the most likely turn to overcook as you are moving pretty fast on the exit of 2.

Turns 3 and 10 are the heavy braking turns where your carrying a lot of speed.

It's not a race where people are trying to pass off-line. I don't know what passing zones Todd is planning, but NASA had passing zones between 9 and 10, 10 and 1, and I believe 1 and 2.

Groo

08-15-2006, 08:19 PM

If I can get a rollbar shipped and installed in time, I'd love to attend.

96HawkCnvt

08-15-2006, 08:57 PM

It's not a race where people are trying to pass off-line. I don't know what passing zones Todd is planning, but NASA had passing zones between 9 and 10, 10 and 1, and I believe 1 and 2.

Only planning on 9 - 10 & 10 - 1. We have also opened up 3 - 4 a couple of times but I'm not really planning on it. Not a big deal IMHO since there is typically WAY more track time than anyone really wants anyway and it's easy enough to follow someone through the back and then pass on the long straights. I'm always open to ideas but primarily want to keep it really safe.

Todd

RayK

08-15-2006, 09:08 PM

If I can get a rollbar shipped and installed in time, I'd love to attend.

Your Miata would be real fun on the back half of the course. I have fun with the stang on the back, but half to work it on the corners.

RayK

08-15-2006, 09:10 PM

Only planning on 9 - 10 & 10 - 1. We have also opened up 3 - 4 a couple of times but I'm not really planning on it. Not a big deal IMHO since there is typically WAY more track time than anyone really wants anyway and it's easy enough to follow someone through the back and then pass on the long straights. I'm always open to ideas but primarily want to keep it really safe.

Todd

3 - 4 would be OK for sure. Are you requiring a point-by and is the passing car passing off-line?

MiataAndy

08-16-2006, 09:41 AM

StevenMosley

08-16-2006, 10:08 AM

COM also has track days on 8/24 and 9/13.

I have had a lot of fun at BIR. Only problem I have run into is cars in the passing zone that are way faster on the straights then my car. I was consistantly stuck behind a car that would do 160+mph down the straight and pull way ahead of me and then I would catch them by turn 4 so I could not enjoy the best part of the track.

StevenMosley

08-16-2006, 10:12 AM

3 - 4 would be OK for sure. Are you requiring a point-by and is the passing car passing off-line?

I don't see 3-4 working unless the car that is allowing the pass slows way down. I can only hit about 90mph between those turns which means it is pretty short.

Turn 9-10 I hit my speed limiter at 118mph which gives you plenty of room.

phile

08-16-2006, 10:51 AM

I was consistantly stuck behind a car that would do 160+mph down the straight and pull way ahead of me and then I would catch them by turn 4 so I could not enjoy the best part of the track.
You have essentially described my ice-racing experience. Just turn down the top-end a bit. I think Darwin Bosell used to get the Corvette to about 130. An 850cc SAAB ain't going there.

Chin

08-16-2006, 02:28 PM

You will see me next year as the 'Track Day Budget' will be back in action! Mmmm, more wheels, tires, and brake pads.....

Christian Banks
#202 DSP
'00 Impreza 2.5RS

Gairloch

08-16-2006, 02:56 PM

I was consistantly stuck behind a car that would do 160+mph down the straight and pull way ahead of me and then I would catch them by turn 4 so I could not enjoy the best part of the track.

One of the best solutions for this problem at any track event is to take a trip through the hot pit. You can let the grid workers know that you want lots of room before they let you out again.

This problem can also be alleviated if it is stressed at the drivers' meeting that if HP cars are finding momentum cars riding their asses through the back side that they should let them past between 10-1.

96HawkCnvt

08-16-2006, 07:18 PM

One of the best solutions for this problem at any track event is to take a trip through the hot pit. You can let the grid workers know that you want lots of room before they let you out again.

This problem can also be alleviated if it is stressed at the drivers' meeting that if HP cars are finding momentum cars riding their asses through the back side that they should let them past between 10-1.

Right on the money with your comments. We do stress in the driver's meeting that everyone must pay attention to cars coming up on them and go ahead and let "slower" cars pass on the straight.

Your other idea is something else that we promote. Don't get frustrated, just pull off and get some space.

I hope a bunch of you guys can make it.

Todd

96HawkCnvt

08-16-2006, 07:35 PM

An event like this is something i have had an interest in for a while now. The miata now does have a roll bar as well, so that helps. While i cannot commit to attending as of right now, i would definetly like to do this event.

This, of course, would be my first event like this, and i guess i would just like a little more information on how the day goes for beginners. I understand the need for beginners to an instructor and everything, i'm just curious what the day's schedule looks like and how the day progresses for beginners.

I'm hoping to attend, and all the information i can get before hand would be nice as it will help me to not look like too much of an idiot when the day arrives. Thanks!

Andy, do not be the least bit worried about being inexperienced. We really encourage beginners for our events. You will be ahead of most beginners if you have autocrossing experience.

You would have a blast in your Miata. I haven't finalized the shedule, but we typically start with a driver's meeting for everyone driving and then beginners stay for some further instruction. While the beginners are getting this instruction, the experienced guys will get ready & go out on track for a "touring" session. In the first session we encourage everyone to just shake things out a little bit and take it easy. First couple of laps will be full yellow and even after going green we will encourage everyone to take it easy the first session. Depending on number of people, we will have 2 or 3 groups and sessions will be about 20 - 30 minutes long.

As a beginner you will have an instructor with you or you will ride with an instructor. That is for you & your instructor to work out. Sometimes we have 1 instructor per student and sometimes we have 2 or 3 students per instructor. Just depends on how many beginners etc. You will run with an instructor until he/she feels you are ready to go out on your own. That typically doesn't take long.

Right after lunch we will probably have a brief driver's meeting (10 minutes) and find out if anyone has any questions or concerns. If everyone is doing okay and ready for it, we'll run one more set of experienced/beginner sessions and then open the track for the rest of the day. All rules still apply. This has worked very well for us and in the past there have been no issues with beginners getting intimidated or anything.

This will be a GREAT time! Hope more starte siging up so that we can make this happen.

Let me know if you have any other questions or if I have been unclear on anything. We also offer a mentor which is simply a volunteer that will answer any/all questions before, during or after the event.

Todd

RayK

08-16-2006, 08:22 PM

I don't see 3-4 working unless the car that is allowing the pass slows way down. I can only hit about 90mph between those turns which means it is pretty short.

Turn 9-10 I hit my speed limiter at 118mph which gives you plenty of room.

It's not to bad. You take your foot off the gas for a second or two and the guy flys past and you fall in behind him. In the events I've been run by NASA or F-Body's, it's encouraged to give the passing car a break so he can complete the pass safely.

RayK

08-16-2006, 08:32 PM

Don't get frustrated, just pull off and get some space.

Todd, maybe it should be stressed if you stuck behind a slower car on the back, don't get uptight and ride the back bumper just in case the guy gets a little loose.

Just get ready to pass between 9 and 10 .

StevenMosley

08-16-2006, 10:08 PM

Anyone going up on August 24th?

RayK

08-16-2006, 10:19 PM

[QUOTE=StevenMosley]Anyone going up on August 24th?[/QUOTE

Is that a corvettes only event? Couldn't tell from the site.

StevenMosley

08-16-2006, 10:43 PM

no, it is open

I took time off work, but that seems to never work out. So it will come down to if i can fit the day off in my work schedule and if I can get the oil and brake fluid changed in my car.

96HawkCnvt

08-17-2006, 12:57 PM

Anyone going up on August 24th?

Not sure it's the same group, but the Corvette group that I've run with up there doesn't even use corner workers nor do they have anyone controlling when cars are entering the track. It's difficult to see who is coming down the front straight. Instead of corner workers they just rely on another car to come back in and tell people what happened. Costs less to do it that way though...

They are in general though a very nice bunch of people and I've had a good time running with them. I just don't feel as safe running with them.

Todd

StevenMosley

08-17-2006, 01:36 PM

Well I'll be going to Saint Louis on the 23rd. I'm not sure if I can do the 24ht event now. :(

Work is for suckers.

Cman

08-17-2006, 02:47 PM

I will be there ! They do reduce the cost by eliminating coner workers. I have to say I have run with the Suburban Corvettes at least 8 or 9 times at BIR and there has never been any issue resulting from the lack of corner workers...we are not racing !

They are a great group to run with, very low key and 5 hour of track time available to each participant.

Then on Saturday to 26th there is a Findtheline day at MAM...be there too. This stuff is addicting.

Steve

White MX5 w/boost

StevenMosley

08-18-2006, 07:05 AM

MAM, 26th. hmmmm

How much is that one?

(what's worse? Not having vacation or having no time to take it?)

Cman

08-18-2006, 11:53 AM

$150...a good deal.

Steve

RayK

08-18-2006, 06:52 PM

I might have to venture down to MAM. :D

92MNstanger

08-18-2006, 08:01 PM

Put on by the MNFbody club. All cars welcome, instructors available. Great, casual way to try out opentrack if you haven't.

http://www.rmarshall.com/ttmevent.html

Sorry, see it's already on this board. Mods delete me.

96HawkCnvt

08-22-2006, 01:37 PM

Quick update for everyone. We are at 21 registered now and I'm working with another group that would make this day a reality as long as those 21 all pay up (currently 16 paid). Stay tuned...

Todd

StevenMosley

08-22-2006, 02:06 PM

how many do u need?

96HawkCnvt

08-22-2006, 02:09 PM

If I get the green light from the other group and get everyone paid up that is registered then we are good to go. But the more the merrier!

Todd

Default User

08-23-2006, 05:23 PM

I'm very interested in this! as far as timing its perfect, I took 18-19 off for my birthday already :) and i can't imagine a better birthday if this happens :D

I have a few questions

I own a 95 civic and it's not the fastest car and i would not want to be a burdun on the rest of the group, is a honda welcome at a event like this?

what happens if it rains?

I read your tech inspection sheet and I think my car would pass and i will change all fluids before the event...my car is turboed and one concern is overheating the engine and brakes... is it possable to pit or somthing if i need to???

I have another friend who would like to do this as well and possably one or two more who my be interested

I Really want to do this

96HawkCnvt

08-23-2006, 06:17 PM

I'm very interested in this! as far as timing its perfect, I took 18-19 off for my birthday already :) and i can't imagine a better birthday if this happens :D

Good news, it is ON!!! See my next post for details.

I have a few questions

I own a 95 civic and it's not the fastest car and i would not want to be a burdun on the rest of the group, is a honda welcome at a event like this?

You & your Civic are absolutely welcome! No worries at all on holding anyone up. In fact quite often, the "slower" cars end up faster due to better driving.
Anyway, we have strict rules & in general just a great group of people that are just happy to have new folks out there.

what happens if it rains?

There is a potential for running Tuesday instead, but with people already planning on Monday, we'll almost certainly run rain or shine. Running in the rain can actually be lots of fun and give you an opportunity to learn some good car control lessons at slower speeds. I promise that you'll have a great time either way.

I read your tech inspection sheet and I think my car would pass and i will change all fluids before the event...my car is turboed and one concern is overheating the engine and brakes... is it possable to pit or somthing if i need to???

Yep, you can come off track at any time as you might need to. I've had cars that sometimes need some cool-down time too.

I have another friend who would like to do this as well and possably one or two more who my be interested

I Really want to do this

Great, get them to sign up as well. You will all have a great time.

Thanks for your questions.

Todd

96HawkCnvt

08-23-2006, 06:18 PM

HUGE THANKS to everyone that registered & paid for this upcoming event. It is going to be better than ever!

Here is the deal, it hasn't been looking good for the event to actually happen despite efforts by many of you to help promote it. So, in an effort to make sure it happens for everyone, I have worked it out with Gary Curtis over at Donnybrooke Motorsports to share the day with them. The bonus is that Gary has agreed to run the instructional portion of the day and there is nobody that does it better!

Schedule is not nailed down but I've already got buy-in from Donnybrooke to run it as I have already advertised with run groups in the morning and then open track in the afternoon.

So for those that have been waiting for this to be a done deal, IT IS - REGISTER NOW!!!

Let me know if there are questions.

Thanks,
Todd

StevenMosley

08-23-2006, 06:43 PM

I'm not going to make it to the MAM or BIR event tomorrow. :(

Default User

08-23-2006, 06:44 PM

I got two more people on board what is the limit?

Is the price going to change? or is it still $200.00 paypal...

rdyzz

08-23-2006, 06:54 PM

yes im pretty interested in a road course also. im even considering taking off my rear trd sway bar so the car would be towards understeer. this will also be a good chance to see if the gt wing i bought works.

Default User

08-23-2006, 07:02 PM

hey i know you...hehe

rdzzy... I'm going to do this and so is eric you in??

Default User

08-23-2006, 08:39 PM

I'm In, BIR or bust...or however that goes :)

96HawkCnvt

08-23-2006, 09:41 PM

Hey Default User, got your registration & payment. Thanks for getting that in.

Yep, it's still $200 if you PayPal. As for a limit, we are nowhere near the limit so no worries there yet. If we are getting close to having too many cars I will post it so that anyone can get in last minute. BIR is a big track and there should be no loss of track time unless we get a really large number. I've run up there when there were near 100 cars and it still wasn't a problem getting a bunch of track time in.

Todd

96HawkCnvt

08-26-2006, 04:42 PM

Updated participant list:

Ray K. ************** 2004 Mustang GT, paid
Tamara M. *********** 1991 Firebird Formula, paid
Bob G. ************** 2000 Trans Am WS6 Convertible
Rick T. ************* 1993 Mustang SVT Cobra, paid
Matt C. ************* 2005 Evo, paid
Craig N. ************ 1995 Firehawk Convertible, paid
Kenneth K. *********** 2004 M3, paid
Jim D. ************** 2002 Corvette Z06, paid
Todd B. ************* 1996 Trans Am WS6, paid
Dwight A. ************ 2004 GTO, paid
Eric A. ************** 1985 Z28, paid
Brian E. ************* 2002 Corvette Z06, paid
Scot G. ************* 1994 Mustang GT, paid
Steve M. ************ 1992 Mustang, paid
Bruce G. ************* 1998 Z28
Randy A. ************* 1995 Impala SS, paid
Chris W. ************* 1999 Corvette, paid
Dave W. ************* 1997 Eclipse, paid
Frank S. ************* 1998 Mark VIII
Jeff R. ************** 2006 Cobalt SS, paid
Gary W. ************* 1994 Z28, paid
Rick M. ************** 2004 Mustang Cobra
Christopher H. ********* 1995 Civic EX, paid
Ken O. ************** 2001 M Roadster, paid
Jeremy D. ************ 2003 Marauder, paid
Scott L. ************* 2001 Saleen S281SC
Randy P. ************* 2003 Cobra, paid
Dan E. ************** 1998 Cobra
Ryan G. ************* 2006 Evo IX MR, paid
Mark B. ************* 1994 Taurus SHO
Dwayne C. *********** 2005 Lotus Elise, paid
Eric J. ************** 1987 Corolla FX16 GTS, paid

Thanks to everyone that has signed up. Still spots open if anyone wants to give it a shot.

Todd

96HawkCnvt

08-29-2006, 03:13 PM

Updated list again. Glad to see some folks from this group signed up. Anyone else?

Todd

Default User

08-29-2006, 06:49 PM

96HawkCnvt

08-30-2006, 12:02 AM

Hey, you really don't need to worry. No doubt you will probably get passed quite a few times, but everyone WILL follow the rules and it will not put you in any extra danger. Also, just because your car may not be as capable, doesn't mean that you will be slower around the track than everyone else.

You may have noticed the Mitsubishi Evo on the list. That is Matt and he started out in a Civc Si as well and he did GREAT! Honestly, everyone was talking about how he was wringing everything out of that car. As a matter of fact, he was pushing a new Ferrari 360 Modena all the way around the back of the course. No chance of keeping up on the straightaway if the Ferrari driver wasn't watching for him, but he honestly was faster than that guy in the Ferrari on every part of the track other than the long straights.

Did you notice the Mitsu Eclipse? That car isn't terribly fast and he is not one to push hard. Also, I'll probably bring my Honda even if I do have my Firehawk or Camaro ready to go. I drove it at our last event in Iowa. It is a bone stock Accord and I was able to pass a number of cars including a '99 C5.

Give me a call if you have any questions. I'd be happy to chat about it more if you are seriously concerned. I don't want anyone to feel like that. 651-203-8009

Todd

RayK

08-30-2006, 12:27 AM

man, im by far the slowest car on the list...

this is starting to worry me some, I'm about a hundred hp off the next closest car (cobalt) how in the hell am i going to run on a open course with cars like this...

How set up are these cars? becuse my civic is almost stock and i would think me being on the course with a caged 400+ hp car might be VERY DANGEROUS!!!
I mean come on my cars limit is much lower in every aspect then 95% of these cars...i guess i dont really see how this is gonna work....no matter how far you space us I will allways be in the way....bummer :(

Like Todd said, you'll get passed on the straights probably, however, you will have a blast on the back half of the course with your car. A car is just one part of the equation. Driving the line and actually driving a car near it's limit is hard. I think you'll see some fast cars run slower then you think and some slow cars run faster. Obviously, there will be some cars that pass most of us.
:(

The front straight is very long and everyone that is behind you will have passed if they want. That means you probably will run the back half without a crowd. I wouldn't worry about it. Todd runs a good event.

Erik_Gerrits

08-30-2006, 02:14 PM

I am hoping to make this event but I will have to see if I can get all of my parts in. I will have to be a late sign up.

96HawkCnvt

08-30-2006, 03:34 PM

I am hoping to make this event but I will have to see if I can get all of my parts in. I will have to be a late sign up.

No problem, just register as quickly as you are able. For anyone that may be looking at doing this last minute, please make sure that you have gone through the tech sheet (on the website) so that your car is ready to go. Would hate to have you get up there and not be able to run because of a problem with the car.

If you are planning on coming but cannot register/pay yet for whatever reason. Please send me an email: TD@TrackTimeMotorsports.com to let me know your intentions. Also, please write my cell phone down so that you can contact me when you get to the track if needed. My cell: 612-839-9436

Thanks,
Todd

Default User

08-30-2006, 10:25 PM

ahh thanks for the reply i got a little nervous looking at the list...

I'm a total noob to open track :oops:

96HawkCnvt

09-05-2006, 03:39 PM

Ok, who else is going to join us? This will probably be one of the last chances to get out and run your car hard before the snow flies. Gonna be a great time!

Todd

96HawkCnvt

09-05-2006, 10:16 PM

Participant's list updated. Check HERE (http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56172&postcount=48)

Todd

Default User

09-12-2006, 10:16 PM

hey todd, i got eric to sign up and i have another friend who wants to go as well but he wanted me to ask what is the cut off for payment??

His funds have been tight latly and he has been saving up for this for about two weeks now...he asked me if he could pay on site and i told him probably not.... he has a crappy computer and could not post this himself if its not too late please let me know...

I have been bustin ass trying to get my car ready :) i got new axels,porterfield brake pads/shoes, willwood brake fluid, earls stainless brake lines and was able to find a set of kumo escta v700 for cheap I hope these are better then my dunlop fm901's....

I also was wondering how the day will be set up mostly what time do we need to be there???

thanks....

-chris

96HawkCnvt

09-12-2006, 11:37 PM

Chris,

I will accept payment day of the event, but I really would like to have people at least register before hand. That helps with planning for instructers etc.

As for timing, we will start checking people in at 7:30 and the driver's meeting will start at 8:00. I suggest that people be there before 7:30 since it will be busy getting everyone signed in. I've been trying to get another email out to everyone, letting them know some of this stuff.

Sounds like your car will be lots of fun on the track. I'm leaning toward bringing my stock Accord up there so it might be fun if we can run a few laps together. I should do okay except for tires & brake pads. Where did you get your Porterfields?

Todd