new guy with questions..

[Lancimus]

Hey, my name is Lance, and I am really looking to get into autocross. I drive a 94 Ford Probe GT (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2160551) ...and it has like 130,000 miles on it, and I want to know if there are thing is I need to do/check on it to make it "racable?"

[EWAustin]

Welcome to the MAC board.
First off, try to stay away from the R word, the insurance company doesn't like it and it's generally frowned upon.
Now that I got the messy business out of the way, here's the fun part. Competing in an autocross is THE single most addictive thing I have ever done. As far as making sure your vehicle will pass tech inspection, the biggest things are to make sure that the battery is securely fastened to the car, the wheel bearings are in good shape, and that the brake pedal feels like it should. Other than that, plan on getting to the site early, removing anything from your car that isn't bolted down (floormats, hubaps, etc), and don't be afraid to ask someone for help. We're all friendly guys (and girls) who are more than happy to help someone new to the sport (like me).

If you want to reserve a number early (contact "phile") you can make some numbers and letters to Identify yourself. Look in the "General Discussion" area for the "permanent number update 1/19/06" thread. There are also some great instructions in the "Car Classes and Rules" area for making your own numbers.

I know I'm leaving a lot out here, but hopefully this will atleast get you started. In the next few hours here MNBiker and phile should sound in with their comments (and pointing out my mistakes)

-Eric

[wannabfast]

seatbelts, good tires, good wheel bearings, battery tied down, good tie rods and ball joints....

thats basically about it, other than that.. if its got 4 tires, an engine, seat with seatbelt, you should be good

[EWAustin]

seatbelts, good tires, good wheel bearings, battery tied down, good tie rods and ball joints....

thats basically about it, other than that.. if its got 4 tires, an engine, seat with seatbelt, you should be good


I knew I forgot something...

[weidnerpaul]

seatbelts, good tires, good wheel bearings, battery tied down, good tie rods and ball joints....

thats basically about it, other than that.. if its got 4 tires, an engine, seat with seatbelt, you should be good






I knew I forgot something...

Good engine bearings?

[MNbiker]

Good engine bearings?

Not a requirement, but highly recommended. ;)

[aansorge]

To check your wheel bearings, grab the top of the tire firmly and shake like mad. If you feel the wheel click(?) the bearing needs to be replaced. That is the best way I can describe it!

[DCM]

:lol:


Not a requirement, but highly recommended. ;)

But then anything that is close to failure probably will.
Ask me how I know? :lol:

[phile]

To check your wheel bearings, grab the top of the tire firmly and shake like mad. If you feel the wheel click(?) the bearing needs to be replaced. That is the best way I can describe it!
Just don't rely on that to tell you your wheel bearings are OK. I shook the front end of the Triumph before we left Rockford. Left front wheel fell off in Red Wing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/80619776/in/set-1723367/

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier/80619776/in/set-1723367/>

[EWAustin]

[b]
[/i]





Good engine bearings?


Hey Hey Hey, that's not fair. How was I supposed to know my oil pump would die? And besides, after I cleaned up the score marks, they still plastigaged just fine. Albeit at the upper limit of the range, but not out of spec.

[weidnerpaul]

Hey Hey Hey, that's not fair. How was I supposed to know my oil pump would die? And besides, after I cleaned up the score marks, they still plastigaged just fine. Albeit at the upper limit of the range, but not out of spec.

I guess that post was a bit "cold", it's the silly season --- what can I say.
BTW I know where there is a 87 MR2 for $1600 that needs front end body repairs (all parts supplied at the price) if you want a second car to "revive". It's a T top & it runs good, the front end just hit a deer, or a deer hit the front end...

[EWAustin]

It's all good, I still remember going for a ride in your Marcos a few years back (that was awesome by the way).

I think I'm gonna stick with one irrational daily driver for now though. (besides $1600 is a bit rich for my blood. I only paid $600 for mine, and $100 for the new engine, then $80 for the headgasket kit, and now about $100 on other stuff (o2 sensor, timing belt, other belts, lotsa carb cleaner, etc etc etc) Still, $900 for a nearly rust free '87 MR2 isn't bad at all. Although I do have a good number of man-hours in it now.

[wannabfast]

speaking of marcos.. i understand the name has been resurrected... they got a new car out with a 350 chevy small block

[weidnerpaul]

speaking of marcos.. i understand the name has been resurrected... they got a new car out with a 350 chevy small block

That car has been on-off again thru the years, the current owner is an American & a lot of us hope the car will make it over here someday...

[weidnerpaul]

It's all good, I still remember going for a ride in your Marcos a few years back (that was awesome by the way).


The Marcos has been relegated to the street, if you think that was fun you should check out the "add a nose" car!
;)

[AlexL]

BTW I know where there is a 87 MR2 for $1600 that needs front end body repairs (all parts supplied at the price) if you want a second car to "revive". It's a T top & it runs good, the front end just hit a deer, or a deer hit the front end...
$1600 is about the limit of what I'd pay for an '87 MR2 that didn't hit a deer.

[EWAustin]

The Marcos has been relegated to the street, if you think that was fun you should check out the "add a nose" car!
;)

Is this an invitation for a ride along?

[weidnerpaul]

Is this an invitation for a ride along?

Dunno, is it? You made me feel bad for picking on you regarding the bearings but you do need to work on your car **** technique...

The car handles way different at the limit with a passenger (not better!) so maybe a spirited ride on the street at an AX or monthly meeting --- and it'll be on the road as soon as the salt/snow is gone, no matter the temp, real cars don't need:

heaters
tops
wipers
windshields
side windows
bushings in the rear end

You get the idea...

Mike Davis and the guy with the Stalker have real cars too ;)

Paul

PS. I recall offering the ride along in the Marcos when I heard you'd signed up for service --- sooooo then, have you re-upped then (easiest way to get a ride)
:p

Enough thread hijack, back to the topic...

Lance,
Welcome to the club, since you're new at it I suggest you spend less time on the car mods and more on the "nut behind the wheel". This applies especially once the season starts as if you're modding things you'll never know if you're faster cause you're better or the car is. There are lots of threads with "newbie" info and answers, I suggest you really check out this board (change your settings to see further back, I think the default is like a month or two)

[EWAustin]

The intent wasn't to make you feel bad, just point out that it was a cheap shot. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

As far as handling different with a passenger, I bet it would handle worse with my added 270lbs too. I don't have a fat body type like the weight implies, I'm just slightly heavier than I should be, but I'm SOLID. The advantage being that it's a no-top (think rag-top but with no rag) I don't have to worry about head room (I'm 6'4" now). Leg room isn't generally a problem since I've got short legs.
I don't remember the ride along being offered as part of my enlisting, but my memory sucks. (I honestly can't remember what I had for lunch today). I still have 3 years and 3 months left of Inactive Ready Reserve if that counts for anything. If not then I can only hope that my being a poor engineering student and hopeless car junkie can count for something.

[weidnerpaul]

The intent wasn't to make you feel bad, just point out that it was a cheap shot. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

As far as handling different with a passenger, I bet it would handle worse with my added 270lbs too. I don't have a fat body type like the weight implies, I'm just slightly heavier than I should be, but I'm SOLID. The advantage being that it's a no-top (think rag-top but with no rag) I don't have to worry about head room (I'm 6'4" now). Leg room isn't generally a problem since I've got short legs.
I don't remember the ride along being offered as part of my enlisting, but my memory sucks. (I honestly can't remember what I had for lunch today). I still have 3 years and 3 months left of Inactive Ready Reserve if that counts for anything. If not then I can only hope that my being a poor engineering student and hopeless car junkie can count for something.

I think there's hope for you, your car **** skills are improving, street only as explained before as it'd be a real handful with 270 pounds in the passenger seat...

[Rex Jr]

Just don't rely on that to tell you your wheel bearings are OK. I shook the front end of the Triumph before we left Rockford. Left front wheel fell off in Red Wing.



Yeah, you shook it too hard. ;)

[Teddy.B]

Yeah, you shook it too hard. ;)

shake the other way to check your tie rod ends, it'd be bad news if one of those broke. Hope to see you this summer, there is atlease one other guy that will be running his probe gt also, so you'll have some head to head competition.

[Joel R.]

Hey, my name is Lance, and I am really looking to get into autocross. I drive a 94 Ford Probe GT (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2160551) ...and it has like 130,000 miles on it, and I want to know if there are thing is I need to do/check on it to make it "racable?"

Hey Lance, I'm the other guy with a '93 probe GT with 180k, and about 7 years on and off ownership. I am new to autox also and am constraining myself to stick to stock, and increase driving skill. I'm just happy the car still moves right now since it's been through my teen years, and 3 years of a female friends "driving". (No offense.) I had a distributer go about 60k ago and am worried I'm due for another. See you this summer, nice to have a comparable car to reference.

[Dan I.]

Hey Lance, I'm the other guy with a '93 probe GT with 180k, and about 7 years on and off ownership. I am new to autox also and am constraining myself to stick to stock, and increase driving skill. I'm just happy the car still moves right now since it's been through my teen years, and 3 years of a female friends "driving". (No offense.) I had a distributer go about 60k ago and am worried I'm due for another. See you this summer, nice to have a comparable car to reference.

I heard the 94's were way faster...

:lol:

those things have 16" or 17"s? any decent amout of camber adjustment up front?

[Lancimus]

I heard the 94's were way faster...

:lol:

those things have 16" or 17"s? any decent amout of camber adjustment up front?

lol...

i am pretty sure they are 16s and i am not even gonna pretend and lie to be cool...what is camber adjustment?

[EWAustin]

Camber is the measure (in degrees) of how much the top of your wheel leans either in towards the engine or out towards the other cars on the road. "Negative Camber" is when the top of the tire leans inwards and will help with cornering up to a point. There is such a thing as too much negative camber also.

[wannabfast]

no probes do NOT have camber adjustment

[Joel R.]

[QUOTE=Dan I.]I heard the 94's were way faster...

Lance's specs on car domain shows 178hp. What's that? If that's accurate I got boned @ 164hp, (13 years ago.) :x

[Lancimus]

[QUOTE=Dan I.]I heard the 94's were way faster...

Lance's specs on car domain shows 178hp. What's that? If that's accurate I got boned @ 164hp, (13 years ago.) :x


estimate of horsepower change after I installed my fidanza flywheel...and i can't even begin to guess on the torque, but i heard that about 14 is how much horsepower i gained.

[Rex Jr]

[QUOTE=Joel R.]


estimate of horsepower change after I installed my fidanza flywheel...and i can't even begin to guess on the torque, but i heard that about 14 is how much horsepower i gained.


Not to **** on your parade or anything, but I recall a SportCompact project series some while ago (1998?) where they were throwing all kinds of bolt-ons at a V6 Probe and the best they could muster on the dyno was 150-something at the wheels. The air-meter in the intake tract was the bottle-neck, after changing to a mass-air-sensor and a piggy-back ECU, they got up to 170-something at the wheels. For what it's worth, the Japanese version of that motor, available in JDM Mazda MX-6s, was good for something like 170-180 (at the crank) in stock trim.

Long story short, you may want to revise your estimates.

Also, a new flywheel doesn't actually make power. What it does is allow more of the engine's power to see it's way to the wheels rather than in rotating the mass of a cast-iron flywheel.

[phile]

[QUOTE=Joel R.]


estimate of horsepower change after I installed my fidanza flywheel...and i can't even begin to guess on the torque, but i heard that about 14 is how much horsepower i gained.
Flywheels don't change steady-state horsepower. The point of a light flywheel is that the car has less resistance to acceleration. The downside is that it becomes more difficult to get going from a standing start. The Trans-Am Mustangs had such light flywheels that when Road & Track did a road test, Parnelli Jones insisted on doing the dragstrip runs himself to attempt to protect the clutch. He said that they shouldn't expect good dragstrip times since that was not what the car was built for.

[Joel R.]

Hey Lance don't let the info on here get you down, I still think $ for $ the GT is still fun to drive. Even though they can be a maintenence nightmare. But in 90k miles, mine has been towed once, (well twice if you include the police towing it to impound during my senior party) :x that's when the distributor went, but I've heard there is a cheap fix with an auxillary coil. (I don't know, only heard) Good luck keeping that thing out of trouble, ie. curbs. :flame:

[benswen]

Hey Lance don't let the info on here get you down, I still think $ for $ the GT is still fun to drive. Even though they can be a maintenence nightmare. But in 90k miles, mine has been towed once, (well twice if you include the police towing it to impound during my senior party) :x that's when the distributor went, but I've heard there is a cheap fix with an auxillary coil. (I don't know, only heard) Good luck keeping that thing out of trouble, ie. curbs. :flame:

Check out www.probetalk.com, and do a search on the "HEI mod." Shows you how to wire GM 4-pin HEI unit into your stock distributor, bypassing the stock internal ignitor and allowing you to connect an external coil. Cheap and easy to do, and you'll never have to worry about replacing the distributor again.

[wannabfast]

from what i heard, probetalk are a bunch of power hungry moderators

[benswen]

from what i heard, probetalk are a bunch of power hungry moderators

Yah, that's true. But there's more useful technical info on that board than can be believed. You just have to wade through about 3000 ricers posting about "Here's how to pop-rivet a park bench to your hatch" and "Here's how to make an intake from my mom's vacuum and a sock." Cool board, but very few Probe owners are willing (and/or able) to invest the kind of time, skill and money it takes to extract the full potential of the KL motor. If you ever go there, search for "Frankenprobe." It's beyond cool.

[EWAustin]

www.frankenprobe.com
Pretty cool for a probe...

[Lancimus]

Pretty cool for a probe...


ouch....

[EWAustin]

Oh Come on... That wasn't even harsh, let alone ouch-worthy...
If I really thought it was that bad I woulda made some 'fix or repair daily' comment, or maybe the 'found on road dead'. I mean come on, I'm just gonna leave the probe joke possibilities alone for fear of being banned.

But really, there is nothing wrong with Probes, they're just not my kind of car. Not enough headroom for one.

-Eric

[weidnerpaul]

Not enough headroom for one.

-Eric

Not enough headroom for one what? Giant?

Lance,
You have to understand Eric, He's been under a lot of stress lately, bought one car, grenaded it immediately, bought another & thought he grenaded it (but was D*** lucky). Besides, there is this guy who owns British that always picks on him, He's jusp passing it on.

And don't take anything you see on this board personal, we're all a little stir crazy right now, you'll understand after you do autocross for a full season and then have your first off-season.

Paul

[EWAustin]

I for instance have been in a 4 year off season, so I'm going certifiably nuts here...

[weidnerpaul]

I for instance have been in a 4 year off season, so I'm going certifiably nuts here...

Yeah but it sounds like you had lots of fun with cars in Japan judging from your posts.

[Joel R.]

[QUOTE=EWAustin]Oh Come on... That wasn't even harsh, let alone ouch-worthy...
If I really thought it was that bad I woulda made some 'fix or repair daily' comment, or maybe the 'found on road dead'. I mean come on, I'm just gonna leave the probe joke possibilities alone for fear of being banned.

Ya I'd be careful since my probe has stamped "Made by MAZDA for the "found on road dead" motor company", and we all know how many rx7 and miata owners we have here. :D

[weidnerpaul]

I'm thinking the Probe owners here seem to be a little defensive...

Check out some prior years results, look for Adam Quimby's times with his car (I'm not saying the model name in THAT sentence!!!). :p

As I recall he did quite well considering that it was a Probe! JK :rolleyes:

Seriously tho, it was a tired slushbox and he turned in some very competitive times in it, Like Darrell said, an 80% car + a 100% driver will always beat a 100% car + an 80% driver --- and his results show that the Probe can do OK...

[Lancimus]

Probe = a great first car on cheap budget...

[EWAustin]

Yes, I did have fun in Japan, and if you ask nicely I'll bring a video of a 540whp Skyline GTR (that I rode in) to a meeting or to the Novice school this year if someone else can bring a laptop. And maybe some pics of my 'real' '94 WRX (even though esper's is probably faster)

As far as my hiatus... Well, I couldn't run any autocrosses in Japan, because it would've been too expensive hiring a translator to sit there and tell me exactly what everyone was saying. So yeah, now I'm back...

[Darryl]

Check out some prior years results, look for Adam Quimby's times with his car (I'm not saying the model name in THAT sentence!!!). :p

As I recall he did quite well considering that it was a Probe! JK :rolleyes:

His was bone stock...Added some tires and had a good time...Also, Adam's Probe was an automatic...

[914 Dave]

[QUOTE=weidnerpaul

The car handles way different at the limit with a passenger (not better!) so maybe a spirited ride on the street at an AX or monthly meeting --- and it'll be on the road as soon as the salt/snow is gone, no matter the temp, real cars don't need:

heaters
tops
wipers
windshields
side windows
bushings in the rear end

You get the idea...

Mike Davis and the guy with the Stalker have real cars too ;)

Paul

[/QUOTE]

Does the 914 qualify...? Just need to substitute "cv joint" for "bushings in the rear end" and I should be in like Flynn. (I grenaded a cv at novice school giving students rides last season)

[benswen]

[QUOTE=weidnerpaul]I'm thinking the Probe owners here seem to be a little defensive...QUOTE]

You get that way when you drive a Probe for any length of time. Everytime someone asks you what you drive, you respond, "Well, it's a Ford Probe, BUT..." and then you try to explain why it's a cool car, and they just look at you funny. Nobody who hasn't driven one gets it.

[weidnerpaul]

Does the 914 qualify...? Just need to substitute "cv joint" for "bushings in the rear end" and I should be in like Flynn. (I grenaded a cv at novice school giving students rides last season)


But Dave,
Don't you have a heater, top, wipers, a windshield and side windows?

:flame:

[weidnerpaul]

[QUOTE=weidnerpaul]I'm thinking the Probe owners here seem to be a little defensive...QUOTE]

You get that way when you drive a Probe for any length of time. Everytime someone asks you what you drive, you respond, "Well, it's a Ford Probe, BUT..." and then you try to explain why it's a cool car, and they just look at you funny. Nobody who hasn't driven one gets it.

I haven't driven one & I'm not slamming it...
(That was a hint for a drive)

[914 Dave]

Paul- the heater is a blanket, the top comes off, the wipers work only if you use the switch, (and not all that well- rain-x is a better solution), the side windows roll down, and well, yes I do have a windshield, but so does your DP car- yours is just smaller.

[weidnerpaul]

Paul- the heater is a blanket, the top comes off, the wipers work only if you use the switch, (and not all that well- rain-x is a better solution), the side windows roll down, and well, yes I do have a windshield, but so does your DP car- yours is just smaller.

Dave, what part of



real cars don't need:
heaters
tops
wipers
windshields
side windows
bushings in the rear end

You get the idea...


don't you understand?

I'll admit your car is nice & I'd love to drive it sometime (and to own one) and it's not high on creature comforts but compared to the Sprite/Stalker/Cobra it does have an additional level of civility...

Paul

EDIT:
I don't consider the Brooklands the same as a windshield, after all with the Porsche I don't think that you get hit on the face/forehead with bugs at speed on those curving country roads. Besides, I can tilt them down or remove them in about 5 seconds...

[phile]

I do have a windshield, but so does your DP car- yours is just smaller.
Actually, two of them. Brooklands windscreens. I have seen MG T-series cars with three: A full-width factory screen, which you fold down to use the two Brooklands screens, which of course fold down themselves!

[PeteySi]

Yes, I did have fun in Japan, and if you ask nicely I'll bring a video of a 540whp Skyline GTR (that I rode in) to a meeting or to the Novice school this year if someone else can bring a laptop. And maybe some pics of my 'real' '94 WRX (even though esper's is probably faster)

Ask nicely? Pretty please? I volunteer to bring the laptop.

[EWAustin]

Ask nicely? Pretty please? I volunteer to bring the laptop.

Sounds good, I'll dig up my stuff and throw it on a CD.

[weidnerpaul]

Sounds good, I'll dig up my stuff and throw it on a CD.

Hey Eric,
Can you burn me a copy too?
Thanks,
Paul

[EWAustin]

Sure Paul, any Ideas for me to get it to you? I live north of Stillwater a little bit.

You just gotta promise that one of the videos won't make it to the web. Japanese police have no qualms with prosecuting from video.

[weidnerpaul]

Sure Paul, any Ideas for me to get it to you? I live north of Stillwater a little bit.

You just gotta promise that one of the videos won't make it to the web. Japanese police have no qualms with prosecuting from video.

I promise!!!
Will you be at the next meeting? Maybe then and then maybe we can change this caption too, your car **** skills are definitely getting better...


I think I like "the sweetest sports car I ALMOST got a ride in" better...

[AQuimby]

I'm thinking the Probe owners here seem to be a little defensive...

Check out some prior years results, look for Adam Quimby's times with his car (I'm not saying the model name in THAT sentence!!!). :p

As I recall he did quite well considering that it was a Probe! JK :rolleyes:

Seriously tho, it was a tired slushbox and he turned in some very competitive times in it, Like Darrell said, an 80% car + a 100% driver will always beat a 100% car + an 80% driver --- and his results show that the Probe can do OK...
SLUSHBOX!!!!
I loved that car. I beat the living crap out of it and never had a problem with it. It was a Probe Base model and when I bought it back in the day I thought I was "the cats pajamas". 4cyl auto it took about 12 seconds to get to 60mph.
Serously there is nothing wrong with a Probe GT. I do not see any reason why it can't be competetive Locally. They are small, fairly light, good power, and I never had Camber on my Probe but I am pretty sure crash bolts are legal on that car.

[Teddy.B]

I am pretty sure crash bolts are legal on that car.
how do you determine if they are legal or not for your car?

[phile]

how do you determine if they are legal or not for your car?
Check the factory shop manual. If special smaller-diameter bolts from the car company are shown in the factory shop manual as a factory-authorized method for adjusting camber, you can use them. Aftermarket bolts are a no-no.

If your body shop has bolts they routinely use for aligning cars, that's not good enough. It has to be a factory-authorized procedure using factory-authorized parts.

[Teddy.B]

Check the factory shop manual. If special smaller-diameter bolts from the car company are shown in the factory shop manual as a factory-authorized method for adjusting camber, you can use them. Aftermarket bolts are a no-no.

If your body shop has bolts they routinely use for aligning cars, that's not good enough. It has to be a factory-authorized procedure using factory-authorized parts.

will the dealership know this if one were to call?

[phile]

will the dealership know this if one were to call?
Coudn't say. How comfortable are you with hearsay?

I think better evidence is to go to a dealership or a big library where they have the factory manual and see it for yourself, maybe pulling a copy.

At big SCCA events you are supposed to have all the factory documentation in your possession. I'm not saying that's practical, just that you are supposed to have it. Considering how expensive some factory manuals are, I doubt everybody has this.