I'm confused on the stock wheel size thing...

[autobahn]

I always thought that if 17s were an option on your model that they were legal for stock class.

So is the difference in the DEALER option vs. the FACTORY option, or just where they were installed?

So if 17s came FROM THE FACTORY installed on some vehicles then they are legal, but if they are put on when the cars come onshore/to the dealer they are not?

What about if it's like some cars where they come with steelies from the factory and the wheels to be sold on the car are installed at the dealer/at port?

[esper]

I always thought that if 17s were an option on your model that they were legal for stock class.

So is the difference in the DEALER option vs. the FACTORY option, or just where they were installed?

So if 17s came FROM THE FACTORY installed on some vehicles then they are legal, but if they are put on when the cars come onshore/to the dealer they are not?

What about if it's like some cars where they come with steelies from the factory and the wheels to be sold on the car are installed at the dealer/at port?

has to be installed at the factory, not at port, not in a dealership.

has to be an option on the same trim of that model of car, same year (eg. 2002 WRX cannot use 17 inch wheels because the 2006 WRX has them)

About the steel wheels question it would really depnd on the circumstance and understanding it more. Were the steel wheels it was transported on the same size as the wheels that went on? Was it a really commonly avilable size on the car, as in most of the models sold in the US? If so then perhaps, I'm not sure, steve would probably know but if its a situation like speacialty model upsize wheels being installed in this way then my guess is its probably not legal.

[austinpike]

has to be installed at the factory, not at port, not in a dealership. I don't see anywhere in the rules that really spells that out. Pretty much every Subie option is port installed - is my factory short shifter illegal because it was installed at the port? (please don't answer that if this thread turns ugly...) ;)

I would imagine that if you can order the car with it "from the factory" (regardless of where the actual install happens), it would be legal. If it appears on the original factory window sticker, OK. If it is an upgrade the dealer tacked on that does not appear on the factory sticker then no.

Tracking that info down for older cars would be the challenge.

using the WRX example - can of worms here:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/impreza/wrxsti2005.html

"The 03 WRX gets... New optional 17" WRX wheels from Subaru..." The STi BBS wheels, as well as 17" 5 spoke pressure cast alloys are listed as optional for the WRX. So would 17s be legal for '03+?

[shane86]

Nope.
Ok. here's how it breaks down simply.
look at your average window sticker. if it's on the right side and has a price next to it, then it's not stock legal.
if it's on the left side then it's stock class legal.

The Suby wheel thing is often brought up as an argument due to the crappy as 16x6.5 wheels. no. the optional BBS wheels are only available as a dealer installed option.

[austinpike]

the optional BBS wheels are only available as a dealer installed option. arguing for the sake of arguing here since I'm sure this has been hashed out my better minds than mine... there were 17" WRX wheels, not the BBS, that were available from Subaru. If you ordered the car with them, I am pretty sure they would come off the truck with them installed. Not swapped by the dealer.

That is an extreme example since I'm sure very few WRXs came with that option. But I know there are other vehicles that have larger wheels as options, and probably half of them come with the larger wheels. They are an upcharge of course, but I don't see how they would be any less "stock." We are talking about "stock" not a "base" model here.

The WRX wing is an added charge on the right side of the sticker. Is that illegal in stock class?

[SaturnRaycer]

This seems to be the meat of the issue of "factory installed" vs "dealer installed".

Look at the Monroney Sticker. If the option is listed there, consider it "factory installed", regardless of whether it was put on at the port of entry, or at the factory. If it is on a supplemental sticker along with paint sealant, fabric protection and other items, consider it "dealer installed".

Scion raises this question to a whole new level, because much of what is on the cars is dealer installed. The factory option list is very short, but the "accessories" (dealer installed stuff) list is huge and runs from paint schemes and sound systems to suspension upgrades and turbo/superchargers.

I'm sure this discussion goes on in clubs all over. Until the SCCA comes out with a good and logical definition of "factory installed", this thread will live long and prosper.

[autobahn]

I just want to make sure I can race my GTI in a stock class if I choose to this year.

GTIs came with either 15"s or 17"s as a factory option. The wheels are put on at the factory. So therefore it is kosher, right?

[MNbiker]

The rulebook is pretty clear on this issue. Here's an excerpt from the definitions section of the 2006 SCCA Solo Rules:

12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

The one gray area I've seen in this definition is the practice of port-installed options for some cars manufactured outside the U.S. In this scenario, the manufacturer performs some assembly after offloading new cars in the U.S., but before shipping them to dealers. I believe there have been cases where the SCCA has ruled such port-installed options as standard parts.

Please note - you can't always use manufacturer's websites to determine which items are standard vs. dealer-installed options. However, a good indicator for most manufacturers is whether an item is called an option or an accessory. Options are typically standard parts, installed by the factory. Accessories are typically installed by the dealer. For example, Toyota lists TRD parts, such as superchargers, suspension kits, short shifters, etc. as accessories.

-Steve

[MNbiker]

I just want to make sure I can race my GTI in a stock class if I choose to this year.

GTIs came with either 15"s or 17"s as a factory option. The wheels are put on at the factory. So therefore it is kosher, right?

Hard to say, without knowing the year of your car. The keys to determining legality are:

1. Was a particular wheel size available on the EXACT trim level of your car? For instance, on 2000 GTI's, the GLS came with 15" wheels, and 16" wheels were exclusive to the GLX. Therefore, you couldn't use 16" wheels on a GLS.

2. The wheels must be a factory standard or optional feature, not a dealer-installed accessory. This distinction appears pretty straightforward with VW, as the facotry standard & optional sizes are quite limited, and are listed on brochures. VW also lists a variety of additional wheel options under Accessories.

-Steve

[autobahn]

In 2001 GTI GLS models could come with the "sport" wheels, which are 17" monte carlos.

I am pretty sure that these came from the factory and not as dealer-installed options.

[StevenMosley]

Here is what I remember about 01 GTI's:
GTI 1.8T: 15 or 17's
GTI VR6: 16 or 17's

They did come form the factory. So if you have a 01 or newer GTI you could put 17x7's on with the correct offset and be stock legal even if your car didn't come with 17's. If you had a 1.8T and you put 16's on you would be moved to STS or DSP.

[autobahn]

Then I'm all set to go :)