3 driver challenge day

[aansorge]

You may recall that Chuck, Salah, and I reported on this message board that we went to an event down in Iowa where we created a 3 driver challenge amoungst ourselves. Basically, we all drove all 3 cars and added up our best time in each car to see who won. The day was a blast and I think that we all learned something about our own driving skills and our cars that we didn't know before. We also pushed each other to the max.

I enjoyed this day so much that I proposed to my club, Basso Presto Sports Car Club, that we hold a 3 way battle day this spring. Basically its going to be a two day event in May with the first day (May 18th) being a test and tune day in conjuction with the three driver challenge, and day two (May 19th) being a regular autocross.

Day one will begin with testing and tuning in the morning with the challenge happening after noon. Those who don't want to do the challenge can continue doing hot laps in their own cars. Those who want to participate will meet at a drivers meeting where they will hook up with two other drivers and start competing by taking 3 or 4 laps in each car. At the end of the day, each team of 3 will figure out the winner of their group and report this to the Event Master (me) to receive their medallion. Drivers will be able to pick and choose who they want to compete against or, if needed, will be aided by me in finding a group.

Participating in such an activity obviously exposes your car to the hands of other drivers, so this challenge isn't for everybody. I for one could care less who is speed shifting my CRX as I have spent almost ten years trying to break this car. Someone with a new Boxster may feel differently.

This event is going to be held in Waterloo, IA (my favorite venue), so not many of you will be able to attend, but out of curiousity, would any of you enjoy such an event, or would you rather just drive your own car? Any other ideas to add?

Adam Ansorge

[Bill Owen]

I think it's a great idea. Id have no problem with a stranger driving my jetta. You break it, you fix it rule is applied... and likewise for their cars!

The best advice ever given to me, "Drive as many different cars as possible and you will sharpen your skills." That was from Pat Washburn and I pass it along to aspiring drivers.

I'm just trying to think of who I know in Iowa that would let me crash at his new house?
;)

[weidnerpaul]

This event is going to be held in Waterloo, IA (my favorite venue)

Adam---
So why is it your favorite venue, give us some more reasons to drive down there---and how far is it anyway?
Anyone else up to caravanning down, maybe we can do car switches on the way down too
:)
I'll be taking the MINI on this trip, not the Marcos...
Paul

[miata#37]

This event sounds interesting. I'll be there. Will it be co-sanctioned by DMVR?

Paul,
Waterloo-Much bigger than Midway and paved with Concrete. It's fast, grippy, and not nearly as hard on your tires as Fairmont. Since the Dog Track closed down, this particular lot doesn't seem to have any other purpose in life than autox.

Bill,
I've got a spare couch and a fridge full of beer ;)

[phile]

>You break it, you fix it rule is applied...

Obviously, everyone is free to set their own rules, but this one does have a basic flaw.

More often than not, a failure happens when it is its time. Who is the lucky guy who happens to be sitting in the left seat when it happens?

Some years back, I was about to drive Brian Martens' Dutton on a fun run with Terry Pitts in the right seat. Terry had a problem coming up with a helmet in a timely manner, so Jay took over. Darned if I can remember who was right-seat for the run. On that fun run, the right-rear coilover mount failed. If Terry had had a hard hat handy, yours truly would have been the unlucky pilot.

Jay didn't cause that failure. I would not have caused it, either.

The difficult call can be whether the failure of an autocross car is due to negligence or abuse by a temporary driver.

There have been drivers in the past whom I wouldn't let drive my car on a bet. They got their fast times by beating the car into submission.

Others, like Jay, got their fast times by smoothness and precision. They did not abuse machines and any failure while they were at the helm would be just the owner's luck not to be there at the time.

Phil Ethier

[SalahK]

Originally posted by phile

The difficult call can be whether the failure of an autocross car is due to negligence or abuse by a temporary driver.

There have been drivers in the past whom I wouldn't let drive my car on a bet. They got their fast times by beating the car into submission.

Others, like Jay, got their fast times by smoothness and precision. They did not abuse machines and any failure while they were at the helm would be just the owner's luck not to be there at the time.

Phil Ethier

I completely agree with Phil.

When Chuck, Adam and I drove each other's cars in Iowa, we drove hard but not in an abusive manner. This is a grey area because different cars have different thresholds for handling abuse. Things I would NEVER do to someone else's car include:

1. Shifting up a gear without letting up on the accelerator, or NOT using the clutch, OUCH!

2. A tiresmoking, redline launch. This is especially detrimental to AWD cars on grippy surfaces. In most cases a redline launch will slow you down some anyway.

3. Hitting the car's rev-limiter for more than a second. If the car isn't Japanese, I probably wouldn't hit the rev limiter at all. if the car is British, I wouldn't even approach the redline, never mind hit the rev-limiter. This rule is pretty subjective because cars are so different in their ability to handle high revs.

4. Braking a touch earlier into corners with a nearby sidewalk.

I think I can easily get within 0.5% of my best time while strictly adhering to the above rules. I will still have just as much fun and that is the most important thing. :D

[chuck b]

Yes- this sounds great. I'd love to drive someone's rear wheel drive machine, preferably a miata. And I'd like to drive a super slow H-stock car too. And some day, a powerful car would be up my alley.
Another concern with car care/abuse is tires and lack of ABS. The easiest way to waste several hundred bucks is to slam on the brakes and leave a black signature- so it's always good to remind the new driver whether your car has ABS or not. I was guilty of partially flat spotting some of Adam's tires, but I like to think they were mostly wasted anyway. Pat Washburn did the same to Adam's tires at a different event (maybe Adam's car has touchy brakes), but it can be a surprisingly easy thing to do in a different car.
Another rule could be- no downshifting if the course doesn't really require it.
And looping a car is still ok in my book as long as you respect the runout room, which should be taken care of with course design anyway. I realize this sort of goes against my rule against flat spotting tires, but that's too bad.
But all in all, a good time will be had.
Adam, good luck coordinating all these three driver car setups. Remember how frantic is was for just us three doing it!

[StevenMosley]

I will be the first to sadmit it. I can be an abusive driver. I like to punish the car.
It doesn't result in the best times, but sometimes is a lot of fun. :)

At the last event of the year I was shutting down the traction control system and launching the Beetle with as much wheel spin as I could get. I don't really care about what kind of time I was getting. I just wanted to try and wreck the stupid Michelins that are on it.

BTW: I don't think anyone can break Adam's CRX. My brother and I had
twin red CRX Si's and tried very hard with no success. To bad more cars
are not built like Hondas. Honda should get a new slogan. "Honda, Cars for people that like to drive them, not repair them."

[aansorge]

First off, thanks for the comments so far...

I agree that the biggest concern is what to do if equipment failure occurs. Personally, I feel that if someone breaks my car, that part was about to go anyhow and will not hold them responsible. I think that all participants should agree on this.

Tire abuse is another concern. Those without ABS should pick co-drivers carefully. I personally have 6 R-compound tires that I need to waste, so I could care less what happens.

Salah's points about taking care of others cars through proper driving techniques and Phil's comments about smoothness will be good points for me to cover in the driver's meeting.

As Chris Beinert stated, its a nice sized concrete lot. It is about 2 hours south of Austin. From the cities it is probably a 3 1/2 to 4 hour drive depending on stops. A good distance but if you go for both days, could be worth it.

As far as the frantic pace Chuck, since Saturday is not an official event, runs will not be taken in any particular order, just get in line. In other words, you can drive the same car 3 or 4 times in a row before switching to another car.

Yes, Chris, the event will be co-sanctioned with the DMVR.

Adam

[914 Dave]

If a person were just interested in the test and tune, and additonal laps in the afternoon, how much seat time might be availible? How many cars might you expect to show up? And how about lodging? What crash pads are in the area, and could we get some sort of group rates? How would you plan to group cars/drivers? Any other rambling info or thoughts you may have on the event will be welcome.

[aansorge]

I went to a test in tune in Iowa a couple of years ago and could have run the course 50 times had I wanted to. It will depend on how many show up. Typically Iowa events have far fewer participants than Minnesota events, generally around 40 drivers, so seat time should be good.

As far as accomodations, the Waterloo, Cedar Falls area is big, so their are many hotels.

Speaking of Iowa events, the first one is on March 16th! Can't wait!

Adam

[maddydaddy]

Is there a website with a calendar of events? I can't wait for the 1st autox of spring! I'll drive pretty far at this point!:D

[aansorge]

The calender for the Des Moines Valley Region SCCA is at www.dmvrscca.org

The Iowa region doesn't have a web site, but I believe their dates are on the DMVR website.