Insurance Spies

[Jon Kotek]

Hey I was reading on Miata.net about how some insurance companies are taking photographs at autox's and checking websites for names in order to drop coverage. Not that I am too worried but someone said that Progressive is the worse offender of doing this (which of course is my carrier) Anyone else ever hear of this?


Jon

[Dave Keillor]

I've heard of it, but can't confirm it. IIRC this was discussed on this board a few months ago. Also I've heard that they look for websites with names posted. I suppose it could be true, but it sure seems like a lot of work for a really low return. Another Urban Legend?

Dave

[phile]

Yes, Progressive was spying on autocrossers in Maine, and may have indeed canceled some.

The odd part is that *more recently* a guy out in Washington cracked up his Boxster at an autocross and made a claim to Progressive and Progressive paid out.

Both of these things seem strange to me.

I can understand an insurance company not paying an autocross claim. I can accept that.

I can *not* accept a company canceling a person from street insurance be cause he autocrosses.

Life is strange. Life with insurance companies is stranger still.

Phil Ethier

[washburn]

Minor, but important clarification: The people were not cancelled. Their coverage simply was not renewed. Big difference, but same net effect. Yes, it does happen...one reason I suggested last year that we publish only car numbers and class in the (internet) results.


Originally posted by phile


Yes, Progressive was spying on autocrossers in Maine, and may have indeed canceled some.

The odd part is that *more recently* a guy out in Washington cracked up his Boxster at an autocross and made a claim to Progressive and Progressive paid out.

Both of these things seem strange to me.

I can understand an insurance company not paying an autocross claim. I can accept that.

I can *not* accept a company canceling a person from street insurance be cause he autocrosses.

Life is strange. Life with insurance companies is stranger still.

Phil Ethier

[Josh S #771]

I'm sure that the insurance companies would never think of the positves of autocross. The biggest one being that AX makes us better drivers.

[Jon Kotek]

I have now heard even more about this, besides the "Maine 25" that were canceled now some autocrossers in Ohio were canceled by progressive. I am thinking more and more that results should be posted with first name, class, number and thats it. Right now my insurance is already high and I am covered by the jerks that are pulling this I don't want to be canceled.

Heck I am thinking of changing my login name on the msg board now. Sheesh!

Jon

[psundberg]

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about this. Looking at many, many club websites (including Nationals), most post results with names. What may have happened was probably the result of some over zealous agent trying to make a name for himself and is the exception. I do not have a problem having my name posted and recommend MAC continue to post results with names. Besides, I always like to compare how I'm doing with other participants. Phil

[phile]

I think it is better that all autocrossers visibly dump Progressive.

Phil

[washburn]

Originally posted by Jon Kotek

I have now heard even more about this, besides the "Maine 25" that were canceled now some autocrossers in Ohio were canceled by progressive. I am thinking more and more that results should be posted with first name, class, number and thats it. Right now my insurance is already high and I am covered by the jerks that are pulling this I don't want to be canceled.
Jon

Not to belabor a point, but I think it is important: These folks were not cancelled...they were not renewed. I've heard of no one actually being cancelled. Not sure that is even legal.

Another data point to confuse things (as Phil mentioned I think) : A lister on Team.net recently got paid a claim from Progressive. He severely bent his Boxter on a tree DURING AN AUTOCROSS. Heavy damage - paid. (I'm always on both sides of every issue!)

Hey....off topic, but I want to know how come Jon gets 5 Stars and I only get 3!

Pat (jealous of Jons stars) Washburn

[weidnerpaul]

Pat,
The more posts you do, the more stars you get---so if you want more stars then...
Of course Jon started with 5 stars but then his company hosts the site.
Paul
AKA 2 Star :-(

[Josh S #771]

Originally posted by washburn

Hey....off topic, but I want to know how come Jon gets 5 Stars and I only get 3!



You start with 1 star and get another one every 50 posts(everyone probably already knew that). Jon gets 5 because he is our almighty moderator and message board guru! ;)

Josh (only 18 more posts til I get another *) Svoboda

[Josh S #771]

Paul you beat me by 1 min 1 sec! :p (This is how I will get my 18 posts, now 17) mwuaaaahaaahaaahaaaa! :D

[Jon Kotek]

Yea I need to get sumtin cool for admin'n this place LOL.:p

[phile]

I will soon be a Senior Member like Pat!

Speaking of meaningless, but cool, numbers:

I got number 27 for the 2003 Back to the 50s. Since the show drew over 10,000 cars last year, I'd say that's a fairly low number.

Stop out and see us in June. My TR4 shouldn't be too hard to find. :-)

If you have a car 1964 or older, you can enter it, too. Gettinger, are you listening?

see http://www.msra.com

Phil Ethier

[Ron]

Hi Guys,
Interesting conversation. I've been a member of MAC for over four years and I am an insurance agent with American Family. As you might suspect, you have no coverage as soon as you participate in any form of competition. So, if you hit something, roll the car, or cause damage your insurance company will not be envolved.This only applies during the competition. If you hit something on the way to an event, or the vehicle is stolen at the site, you should have no problem. I can't imagine an insurance company expending any effort to "catch" us since they have no exposure anyway.
We all know we are better drivers than most since we practice and hone our handling skills. I for one think a discount for competence would be nice, but don't hold your breath on that one.

Ron Johnson:D

[ryan]

Ron -

What is American Family's policy regarding "track days" or "driver's ed" days at a track like St Cloud or BIR? Where there are multiple cars on the track at the same time, however laps are not timed, and the only objective is to become a better driver. No competition, however maximum speeds can exceed the speed limit (70 mph).

Thanks,
Ryan

[MarkDeBoer]

I really doubt that Progressive Auto Insurance has agents out seeing who is auto-crossing. The majority of Progressive Insurance is bought online or over the telephone. There are very few Progessive agents vs a company like State Farm or American Family who sell mainly though agents.
And come on, you are going to dump your Progressive Insurance just because of some "rumer".....like an agent has nothing better to do on a Sunday than to go to an Auto-Cross to see if his insured are racing....

Mark D.

you know, maybe you should look to make sure there aren't any local claim adjusters out seeing who is auto-crossing!! (: ;)

[washburn]

A couple rebuttals:

"Insurance does not apply once you take to the course."

This is clearly not always true. I have corresponded with the guy who had his BWM covered for an Autocrosss incident. The best thing about this story is that it WAS Progressive. Your insurance may differ of course, I'm sure many do not cover you....read your policy and know your agent!

"We shouldn't change based on a rumor."

It is not a rumor. I have personally spoke to one of the individuals involved. They were not cancelled...they were simply not offered continuing coverage. Would it not stand to reason that a company that does it's primary amount of business over the internet would also use the internet in this way? Having said that, I do agree that it was probably just an over-enthuseastic individual at the ins co, and it is not a standing policy to go looking around for people. It's not a huge deal...just get insurance through someone else. There would be, and hase been, cries of foul from those people who were caught up in the silliness however.

[DCM]

Ya'know folk's,we have at least one insurance agent in the club. Ron Johnson with American Family.
Hmmmm, Maybe we could get a group rate????
But, we have to be good drivers who don't get speeding tickets, traffic violations, etc.
We need to vote with our 'feet'
Dwight

[gts24]

I think I can shed some light on this subject.

As many of you know, I wrecked my 2000 GT-S at St. Cloud during an AARRF event. It has been fixed to almost bran new condition and I am very pleased to say that the sucker still handles like a 2500lb go-cart.

I had Progressive at the time of the incident. I didn't get a dime with my attempted claim.

Reasons?

1. I signed a waiver. This seemed to be of larger consequence than anything to the insurance adjuster working on my claim. The fact that I signed away any responsibility from ANYONE except myself basically told them I was doing something that could endanger myself or my vehicle.
2. Competition. Enough said, basically all I can say is read the fine print on your policy. It states ANY competion OR in preperation for competition. So essentially if you are just preparing for a race, even if it's not timed. You will be SCREWED.

Again though, the hugest debacle here was the waiver. The guy kept coming back to that simple fact. We even emphasized the "no timing" thing and I still got jacked.

Here's my biggest problem with all of this. I also brought this up with my adjuster which left him speechless.

If you are street racing and you wreck, I would venture to say that 99% of the time you WILL get covered. Yeah yeah I know the insurance guys will tell you, "we've denied cases of street racing".

Well the problem is, usually only one car actually wrecks in street races and that person or persons involved concoct a story and are then covered by insurance. I am a constant promoter of NOT street racing on mnsportcompacts.net . I sometimes just have a lack of faith that that is the right thing to say. At least these people would be covered in the event something happened to their car.

I guess if anything my biggest mistake was being 100% honest with Progressive. I had numerous people on the day of my crash telling me "drag it out in the middle of nowhere and say you missed a deer or something".

I just couldn't bring myself to do that. Right now I am hurting financially because of this incident, however I didn't get dropped by Progressive which would have happened had they covered me, and I don't have a blotch on my record because of this.

I definitely wouldn't take it back though. I made the right choices, the only wrong choice I made was running my daily driver on a road course. Which won't happen again.

Please ask me any other questions you may have. I'm sure I missed something.

[phile]

Originally posted by gts24

Well the problem is, usually only one car actually wrecks in street races and that person or persons involved concoct a story and are then covered by insurance. I am a constant promoter of NOT street racing on mnsportcompacts.net . I sometimes just have a lack of faith that that is the right thing to say. At least these people would be covered in the event something happened to their car.



Yeah, but they could also kill an uninvolved family of four. No street racing for this kid. Never going to be worth the risk.

Phil Ethier

[Jon Kotek]

Speaking of insurance check out this link

http://www.markviii.org/cal/diablo/index.htm


What is really bad is that State Farm PAID it!! 350K


:sarc

[gts24]

Originally posted by phile



Originally posted by gts24

Well the problem is, usually only one car actually wrecks in street races and that person or persons involved concoct a story and are then covered by insurance. I am a constant promoter of NOT street racing on mnsportcompacts.net . I sometimes just have a lack of faith that that is the right thing to say. At least these people would be covered in the event something happened to their car.



Yeah, but they could also kill an uninvolved family of four. No street racing for this kid. Never going to be worth the risk.

Phil Ethier


Believe me I totally agree, but that's where the paradox is. Those same morons will get covered. Simply because unlike us they were on a street instead of trying to make themselves better drivers during practice.

[MarkDeBoer]

I can understand the fustration of damage to you veh not being covered, but the bottom line is, the Insurance company is just enforcing a binding policy. And every insurance company is different (every claim is different for that matter), but a clear exlusion is racing, to quote the Progressive policy Coverage does not apply for loss:
..."resulting from any pre-organized racing, speed or demolition contest, stunting activity, or in practice or preperation for any such contest or activity"..there are a lot of other exclusions too such as using your veh for work, ect...
Sure you could lie about it, people do every day..But don't get upset at the Insurance Company, they are enforceing a policy You agreed too...
The thing that gets me is that if you total your veh while drinking and driving that is covered, but yeah, auto-cross isn't....We all know that what we do at auto-cross is safe (I'd say much safer than driking while intoxicated), unfortantly it's a risk the Ins Company doesn't want to cover.

Mark D.

**I'm just quoting a regular Policy...extra coverage is always an option and maybe some insurance companies offer coverage for racing.

[gts24]

That's what I was eluding to.

I know what I agreed to. Believe me.

I'm just stating the obvious.

I also brought up with the claim rep, that if I had been driving drunk on the highway, and slammed into someone I would have been fully covered.

Does that not seem asinine to anyone else? I'm not complaining about what happened to me, I'm just complaining about the way the system is setup....