helmets

[jhammer]

Snell 2005 is out now. When will snell 95 helmets no longer be allowed? Our Met-Council rules simply state helmets snell 95 or newer are acceptable, but doesn't say when the 95's will no longer be aceptable.

Just wondering when I'll need to buy a new helmet :) Do we have any guidlines like the SCCA has?

[MNbiker]

That issue will be discussed at the Rules Meeting in December. I'm not yet certain Snell 95 helmets will be banned for next year - that issue will depend on the requirements of Met Council member clubs.


-Steve

[ITSrotary]

FWIW,

SCCA will honor Snell 95 rating until January of 2007.

Steve

[phile]

FWIW,

SCCA will honor Snell 95 rating until January of 2007.

Steve

It's worth a little, Steve. Met Council requires the most stringent of the requirements of the national organizations of its member clubs. This is done for insurance reasons. LOL is a member club of Met Council, so SCCA insurance and rules will be considered.

Nord Stern uses PCA insurance. COM and Suburban use NCCC insurance. Historically, both of these national marque clubs have required more-recent Snell certification than SCCA requires. So Met Council sets its hemet requirements to match the more-stringent of these. At the annual rules meeting, Porsche and Corvette reps should be able to supply the latest info from the national clubs so the Met Council rules can be set.

This is how we wound up with Lee having to tell an SCCA multiple national champion that his hemet was no good at Midway. ;) As a practical matter, it is absurd to think that he was less safe with his own helmet than with a MAC loaner helmet, but rules is rules.

[Steve in Minnesota]

It's worth a little, Steve. Met Council requires the most stringent of the requirements of the national organizations of its member clubs. This is done for insurance reasons. LOL is a member club of Met Council, so SCCA insurance and rules will be considered.

Nord Stern uses PCA insurance. COM and Suburban use NCCC insurance. Historically, both of these national marque clubs have required more-recent Snell certification than SCCA requires. So Met Council sets its hemet requirements to match the more-stringent of these. At the annual rules meeting, Porsche and Corvette reps should be able to supply the latest info from the national clubs so the Met Council rules can be set.

This is how we wound up with Lee having to tell an SCCA multiple national champion that his hemet was no good at Midway. ;) As a practical matter, it is absurd to think that he was less safe with his own helmet than with a MAC loaner helmet, but rules is rules.

Phil

What part of this do you suppose is Snell wanting to sell it's certification service and folks like Bell wanting to sell new helmets......that and c.m.a.

Steve

[Rex Jr]

Phil

What part of this do you suppose is Snell wanting to sell it's certification service and folks like Bell wanting to sell new helmets......that and c.m.a.

Steve


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Snell Foundation is non-profit. I don't believe they sell a certification service, I think they just set a standard that helemt manufacturers aim to meet. Once met, they can then legally claim Snell endorsement.

[73GT]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Snell Foundation is non-profit. I don't believe they sell a certification service, I think they just set a standard that helemt manufacturers aim to meet. Once met, they can then legally claim Snell endorsement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Minnesota
Phil

What part of this do you suppose is Snell wanting to sell it's certification service and folks like Bell wanting to sell new helmets......that and c.m.a.

Steve


The Snell foundation is a Non-Profit but they do charge either 1 or 2 dollars per helmet to the manufactures for the label and to cover the cost of the testing. A Snell rating is a good thing. Go to there website to see why the Snell foundation was started.


Lee F

[MNbiker]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Snell Foundation is non-profit. I don't believe they sell a certification service, I think they just set a standard that helemt manufacturers aim to meet. Once met, they can then legally claim Snell endorsement.

The Snell Foundation is run as a non-profit. However, they most definitely provide helmet certification services - by far the most extensive in the world. The certification does cost manufacturers a modest fee, plus the ongoing cost of stickers ($1.05 or less per helmet.) The certification & ongoing testing process is pretty fascinating.

http://www.smf.org/testing.html

[SmokingTires]

What I don't understand is why certification no longer holds from year to year.... What makes a helmet certified in '95 and different from one that was in 2005? It's not like the standards change that much.

So how are older helmets unsafe?

[MNbiker]

What I don't understand is why certification no longer holds from year to year.... What makes a helmet certified in '95 and different from one that was in 2005? It's not like the standards change that much.

So how are older helmets unsafe?

If you read the standards, there are quite a few changes in the newer testing procedures. Many of the changes are based on forensic data from accidents and random testing. So yes, helmets built to withstand the newer standards are typically safer.

As to why you should periodically replace a helmet, here's what Snell has to say:

Why replace helmet every five years?The five year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both the helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials over time. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy.

[SmokingTires]

Ok, thanks Steve. Although that replacement quote sounds like a sales pitch to me... Improvements only get so far before they peak. I don't think there are any materials at this time that would blow the minds of people five years ago. And I'm pretty sure the rest of it is just saying the padding might fall out...

Oh well, mines good for 2 more years :)

[EWAustin]

Is there a good place locally to shop for a Snell 2005 helmet? I would like to invest in one but I've got kindof a large head, so I think it's necessary to try it on first.

[SmokingTires]

Is there a good place locally to shop for a Snell 2005 helmet? I would like to invest in one but I've got kindof a large head, so I think it's necessary to try it on first.

Most sites have size listings and measurements so you can find out what will fit you. You just measure your head and see what you need. Mine fit perfect when I got it :)

[phile]

Most sites have size listings and measurements so you can find out what will fit you. You just measure your head and see what you need. Mine fit perfect when I got it :)
Fit is pretty-much everything in helmets. I wouldn't want to buy one without trying it on. And I don't mean one of the same model. I mean the exact helmet I am taking home. Lucky for me, I have always found an inexpensive helmet that fits well.

My current hard hat is an HJC open-face with a Snell M2000 label. The tape I had on it to protect it from the unfinished Lotus roof came off cleanly, so it looks OK and will probably remain servicible until Met Council bounces it. Then I may be able to sell it to an SCCA Solo driver elsewhere. I only got 15 bucks for the last one I sold this way because of all the chips and scratches in the finish paint from scraping the Lotus roof while donning and doffing the helmet. As silly as it looked having the sun glinting off the tape when I was in other cars, the tape on the present helmet seems to have paid off.

[MNbiker]

Is there a good place locally to shop for a Snell 2005 helmet? I would like to invest in one but I've got kindof a large head, so I think it's necessary to try it on first.

Bob's Cycle Supply (Hwy 36 & Rice Street in Roseville) has excellent prices and lots of stock. They don't carry SA-rated helmets, but have lots of M-rated helmets, which are fine for autocross events.

[Protege Menac]

The Snell Foundation is run as a non-profit. However, they most definitely provide helmet certification services - by far the most extensive in the world.


not according to alex:


http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1520064227__8860_2004_FIA_Advanced_Helmet.pdf
http://www.smf.org/standards/sa/sa20std.html

For those who don't feel like reading, the FIA standards are essentially based on the Snell standards with a few additional tests for projections and surface friction, crush resistance, and HANS tether anchorage, along with higher standards on the penetration test.

Any FIA-approved helmet can easily be Snell certified, but since nearly all sanctioning bodies either allow or require FIA-approved helmets, it would be rather pointless to pay to have the helmet certified twice.

We won't allow non-Snell helmets at our events due to our insurance policy, despite the fact that FIA helmets adhere to identical standards, with additional standards on top of those.


EDIT:
For what it's worth, that helmet is totally legal for SCCA Solo events.

*still wishes he could use his FIA approved helmet for autocross :( *

[MNbiker]

not according to alex:

I was only referring to the fact that Snell does more helmet testing than anyone else - including FIA. The FIA standards are indeed quite rigorous.