H&R vs Eibach

[StevenMosley]

I have been driving the MR2 now for 2 years and I think think Eibach Sportlines might be the wrong springs for the car. I had great luck with H&R Race springs on my GTI and am starting to think that H&R makes better springs. I also never liked the Eibachs on my brothers SER. Anyone else come to this conclustion that H&R>Eibach?

[jdlhonda]

I'd have to say I liked my H&R's on my Integra better than I like my sportlines on the civic. H&R's were only sport springs.


Just MHO

Jason

[MNbiker]

Steven,

IMHO you're asking the wrong question. The metalurgy of spring steel is pretty well known, and H&R and Eibach both produce springs of above average quality. The real question should be: What spring rates and wind design would be better for my particular car, to meet my desired handling & ride quality requirements.

First, most H&R and Eibach spring sets designed for the road are designed with a progressive wind. This improves ride comfort, but makes handling less predictable. If you stick to a non-coilover setup, finding a non-progressive spring set would be better for autocross/track.

Ultimately, a coilover setup, where you can easily (and cheaply) swap in whatever spring rates you want would be WAY better for motorsports use. Cheap coilovers will sacifice ride comfort, but the good ones are pretty streetable with moderate spring rates.

-Steve

[esper]

Steve:

You did however sell me on the idea of Ground Control's (Eibach does make their springs) and Konis.

However with the adjustability of both the konis and the GC's, I'd say its got the same range of adjustability of your average off the shelf coilover system, so that's an option as well. For me the killer was the warranty was much better than what JIC would have offered.

That being sad, eibach prokit springs (my last set) are designed for stock struts and are generally pretty mild on the spring rates. They're good for lowering the car and making for a nice highway ride, not really good for anything else though.

[Rex Jr]

I have been driving the MR2 now for 2 years and I think think Eibach Sportlines might be the wrong springs for the car. I had great luck with H&R Race springs on my GTI and am starting to think that H&R makes better springs. I also never liked the Eibachs on my brothers SER. Anyone else come to this conclustion that H&R>Eibach?

I later replaced those H&Rs in the GTi with some Eibachs and was much happier with them. Of course I daily-drove the car, so my opinion on this matter probably means little. Never had a chance to compare the H&Rs and Eibachs back-to-back on the course.

[Rex Jr]

Steven,

IMHO you're asking the wrong question. The metalurgy of spring steel is pretty well known, and H&R and Eibach both produce springs of above average quality. The real question should be: What spring rates and wind design would be better for my particular car, to meet my desired handling & ride quality requirements.

First, most H&R and Eibach spring sets designed for the road are designed with a progressive wind. This improves ride comfort, but makes handling less predictable. If you stick to a non-coilover setup, finding a non-progressive spring set would be better for autocross/track.

Ultimately, a coilover setup, where you can easily (and cheaply) swap in whatever spring rates you want would be WAY better for motorsports use. Cheap coilovers will sacifice ride comfort, but the good ones are pretty streetable with moderate spring rates.

-Steve

I gotta second this. Unless your F1 caliber data acquisition system is telling that H&R springs are materially better than Eibachs, or a fat sponsorhip package is telling you, I wouldn't guess that either brand is better than the other. Wind style, rate scale, and package design (I don't mean the logo on the box) are going to be the important elements.

Call Ground Control and have them match up some dampers and springs for exactly what you want the car to do

[MNbiker]

...You did however sell me on the idea of Ground Control's (Eibach does make their springs) and Konis.......

Ahh, but Ground control perches, in conjunction with Konis (or other dampers) are coilovers - at least as I would define them. Besides being pretty cost-effective, the thing I really like about Ground Control kits is they are designed to use standard 2.5" or 2.25" race springs. Therefore, you can buy inexpensive Eibach, Hypercoil, etc. race springs in just about any length or spring rate you could ever want. I just changed the spring rates on my Miata, and the set of 4 Hypercoil springs cost me less than $200.

-Steve

[phile]

Ground control perches ... are coilovers - at least as I would define them.
There's your problem, right there. ;)

There is NO consensus regarding the definition of the term "coilover". I took a survey on Team.Net some years ago to demonstrate this. This survey became central to my successful campaign to remove the word from the SCCA rule book.

[AlexL]

There's your problem, right there. ;)

There is NO consensus regarding the definition of the term "coilover". I took a survey on Team.Net some years ago to demonstrate this. This survey became central to my successful campaign to remove the word from the SCCA rule book.
All of the shocks and springs on every car I've owned have been coilovers. None of them, however, have had threaded bodies or sleeves for adjustment of spring perch height.

[MNbiker]

There's your problem, right there. ;)

There is NO consensus regarding the definition of the term "coilover". I took a survey on Team.Net some years ago to demonstrate this. This survey became central to my successful campaign to remove the word from the SCCA rule book.

Whatever...:rolleyes:

Would you prefer "adjustable spring perches, utilizing readily available coil springs of industry-standard dimensions." ?

[Shrep]

Well, I suppose a standard McPhearson type strut setup would be considered a "coil over" design...

However, by today's terminology standards, Steve G's quoted definition is more suitable for the subject at hand...

It's amazing how as technology progresses, what was once revolutionary, is now...old hat.

[phile]

Whatever...:rolleyes:

Would you prefer "adjustable spring perches, utilizing readily available coil springs of industry-standard dimensions." ?
Yes.

You can roll your eyes all you want. There are almost as many definitions for the the term as there are car enthusiasts. That's why I started the campaign to to get the word taken out of the rule book. Enough people signed on that they did take it out.

Saying that coilovers were (or were not) legal in a given class was totally meaningless without an official definition of the term. SCCA wisely realized that it was cleaner and smarter to remove the word than to issue yet another "clarification".

[pinhead]

Well, I suppose a standard McPhearson type strut setup would be considered a "coil over" design...


Not really... My old CRX had McPherson struts in front, but torsion bars - NOT coil springs ;)

It had coil springs on the rear end, where it had some kind of solid axle with trailing arms and a panhard rod.

Those torsion bars were a sweet idea. I don't know why nobody uses them anymore.

In the current 'car guy' lexicon, though, "coilover" is used interchangeably with "adjustable spring perch". I'm fine with that, not that my opinion matters.

[AlexL]

Those torsion bars were a sweet idea. I don't know why nobody uses them anymore.
Formula 1 cars use them, so I guess they can't be all bad.

[Rex Jr]

Those torsion bars were a sweet idea. I don't know why nobody uses them anymore.



I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the reason torsion bars aren't used in street cars much, if at all anymore, is that you can't really make them to have as progressive a rate curve as you can by winding a coil spring in different coil gap sizes and varying wire diameter. I believe also that the assembly process of a chassis on the assembly line has something to do with it (torsion bar and strut as two units vs. strut/coil as one unit).

[phile]

I believe the reason torsion bars aren't used in street cars much, if at all anymore

My truck has torsion bars in the front. I think it has to do with packaging. The 2WD may have the traditional Chevrolet coil springs above the lower control arms, but they would get in the way of the front halfshafts.

[Shrep]

Not really... My old CRX had McPherson struts in front, but torsion bars - NOT coil springs ;)

It had coil springs on the rear end, where it had some kind of solid axle with trailing arms and a panhard rod.

Those torsion bars were a sweet idea. I don't know why nobody uses them anymore.

In the current 'car guy' lexicon, though, "coilover" is used interchangeably with "adjustable spring perch". I'm fine with that, not that my opinion matters.That's why I said standard ;)

[StevenMosley]

I later replaced those H&Rs in the GTi with some Eibachs and was much happier with them. Of course I daily-drove the car, so my opinion on this matter probably means little. Never had a chance to compare the H&Rs and Eibachs back-to-back on the course.

I really liked that suspension for autox and it never bothered me on the road, but I didn't put that many miles on it. The Tokico Blues and H&R Road Race springs worked great with that custom bar my brother built for the rear. It was horrible with the Tokico Blues and Tokico springs the kit came with. Its ride was really rough and still didn't handle that great either.

The MR2 with its KYB AGX and Eibach Sportlines rides pretty bad. i was thinking it was because I am getting old, but then Chris sad it rides like crap too. The thing is just to stiff. I have read a lot about the KYB AGX's being to stiff for MR2's (worked great on the Integra), but am not sure if I can blame it all on the struts. I'm trying to decided if I get new struts which would problaby be great for softer springs or start over and get a set of coilovers so I can dial in the ride and have adjustable camber. I'm really getting sick of the slipping camber bolts.

[MNbiker]

I'm really getting sick of the slipping camber bolts.

I'm with you on that one. :(
Something about putting 3 times the stock horsepower through the rear suspension seems to make the Miata eccentric bolts go out of adjustment fairly often....

[StevenMosley]

My problem is with the front. I keep losing camber and then the car pushes. I guess the pin exercise at La Crosse last week just totally sucked in the MR2.