STI & other new cars for 2003

[SalahK]

(Originally posted by Christian)
All of you just wait.... the STi is gonna get you all! How about 300hp and 300ftlb, stock!
Muhahahaha
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That's right Christian. And the best part is that the STI will have all the trick differentials that the U.S. EVO is missing. I think the STI will set the standard as far as "putting the power to the ground" is concerned.

Electronic Center Diff (Driver adjustable and Auto mode)
Torque Sensing Front Limited Slip Diff
Mechanical Rear Limited Slip
Simlar suspension as Japanese STI
Huge Brembo Brakes
2.5 liter turbo engine (300bhp - 300lb/ft)
6-speed close-ratio tranny
3250 lbs (I'm guessing)

31-32k price :p

Anyone interested in buying my Type-R ?

[aansorge]

You know I want your type R but I need more time....

adam ansorge

Another new car for 2003 is the sport version of the 330i. Does anybody know if it has a limited-slip? If so and if it stays in stock class, I may not want your Type R.

[StevenMosley]

Adam,

I'm going to the LA autoshow tonight. They have the 330i Performance
package car there and I will ask them about LSD. Check out the
link below for more details.

2003 BMW Performance Package (http://motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_la03/)

[StevenMosley]

Adam,

I talked to teh BMW folks and the Performance Package doesn't
include LSD. :(

They had a four door model on the floor. Nice car, but I was really
impressed with the Evolution. It looks so much better then the
Lancer. It is a sweet looking car. Much better looking then the
WRX. I'm sure once Subaru releases the STi, the Evolution will
come back with something better. Two other cars I was impressed
by was the VW R32 and the Neon VR-4. The RX-8 also was a nice
car and it actually has a functional back seat.

Steven

[SalahK]

As far as looks are concerned, The US EVO is clearly better looking than the US STI. Other than the Pontiac-like front grill and the Ricer-like tail lights, The US EVO has a clean and tidy design. In my opinion, the EVO VII was the best looking car in the Evolution series.

BUT, would I prefer to buy an EVO over the STI based on looks? Absolutely not. Subaru has upstaged Mitsubishi to such a degree that even some of the hard-core DSM fans are cheering Subaru's master stroke; the 2.5L engine. Sure, in about a year's time, Mitsubishi can probably bring in a new version with ACD, AYC, Front Torsen and a 6-speed. However, compared to the US STI, the US EVO will remain short on horsepower and drivability for quite some time.

Why is it necessary for Mitsubishi to put in a bigger engine? Because the strict US emission laws make it very difficult to add more power while maintaining good drivability, reliability and low levels of turbo lag. The amount of boost required by the 2.0 EVO in order to produce around 300bhp, will result in serious lag and major reliability issues. In addition, a well thought out and efficient conversion of their 2.0L to a bigger size will take a lot of time and development. In order to keep the weight in check, It would not be wise for Mitsubushi to simply swap with a larger, existing engine. Keep in mind that the Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) EVOs, STIs and Skylines produce around 300-320 bhp. Because of a silly gentleman's agreement, the Japanese manufacturers never publish figures above 280bhp for their local market. The US STI, with it's 2.5L engine is able to muster similar horsepower as the JDM STIs which use the 2.0 engine. Again, strict US emission requirements are the reason why Subaru chose the produce 300bhp using a 2.5 rather than the 2.0.


I was really looking forward to a proper JDM-style EVO. As you can imagine, I'm really disappointed. The new watered-down EVO is a product of conservative bean-counters. It is an insult to the American Car Enthusiast.

[Josh S #771]

I was really looking forward to a proper JDM-style EVO. As you can imagine, I'm really disappointed. The new watered-down EVO is a product of conservative bean-counters. It is an insult to the American Car Enthusiast.

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Well said Salah. I am glad Subaru upped the ante. Hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit. Maybe we can see some of the cars we have been missing here in the US such as the S3, Civic Type-R, Focus RS, and maybe even the Skyline. We are on the verge of another horsepower era and Subaru is out of the gate first. :D

[fitz]

Originally posted by Salah Khuhro


BUT, would I prefer to buy an EVO over the STI based on looks? Absolutely not. Subaru has upstaged Mitsubishi to such a degree that even some of the hard-core DSM fans are cheering Subaru's master stroke; the 2.5L engine. Sure, in about a year's time, Mitsubishi can probably bring in a new version with ACD, AYC, Front Torsen and a 6-speed. However, compared to the US STI, the US EVO will remain short on horsepower and drivability for quite some time.


I was really looking forward to a proper JDM-style EVO. As you can imagine, I'm really disappointed. The new watered-down EVO is a product of conservative bean-counters. It is an insult to the American Car Enthusiast.

Rubbish. All the people whining about the ACD and AYC not being included on the U.S. EVO are in no danger of buying one - evidenced by the fact I haven't had a single pre-order cancellation because of it. The truth of the matter is the "American Car Enthusiast" doesn't buy enough cars to make including those sorts of toys worth the risk from a marketing perspective. Trust me, I get to hear whining all the time from folks who lament the passing of the GSX Eclipse and 3000GT VR4.

Where the heck were you people when we were actually selling them?!?!?!?!

[aansorge]

Originally posted by StevenMosley


Adam,

I talked to teh BMW folks and the Performance Package doesn't
include LSD. :(

They had a four door model on the floor. Nice car, but I was really
impressed with the Evolution. It looks so much better then the
Lancer. It is a sweet looking car. Much better looking then the
WRX. I'm sure once Subaru releases the STi, the Evolution will
come back with something better. Two other cars I was impressed
by was the VW R32 and the Neon VR-4. The RX-8 also was a nice
car and it actually has a functional back seat.

Steven

Actually, I'm happy about that. I want a Type R and don't want it made obsolete by a limited-slip equipped BMW 330i.

Another question: Will the U.S. spec 2003 MR-S get a limited slip like the European models? If so, it'll be a Miata killer.

[SalahK]

I DID IT :D

I have ordered an STI. It should be here in June or July. The two other cars I had considered were the EVO and the RX-8.

The Type-R will go on sale around the time of MOWOG 1.

[miata#37]

Another question: Will the U.S. spec 2003 MR-S get a limited slip like the European models? If so, it'll be a Miata killer.

I couldn't find any mention of it on Toyota's web site. It's still pretty formidable as an autox car without it.

[fitz]

Originally posted by Salah Khuhro


I DID IT :D

I have ordered an STI. It should be here in June or July. The two other cars I had considered were the EVO and the RX-8.



And at which Mitsubishi store did you have your pre-order deposit?

[StevenMosley]

Congrats Salah!!!

I think you made the right choice. The RX8 is sweet, but
we live in MN. The EVO is nice looking to, but you don't
get the bang for the buck that you get with the Sti.

On another subject, one car I never hear anything about is
the 350Z. I drove one down in atlanta and liked it, but
didn't love it. It felt like a Z of old, but I was hoping for
something smaller or faster. It is big enough that it feels
like a slow Vette.

[SalahK]

Originally posted by fitz



Originally posted by Salah Khuhro


I DID IT :D

I have ordered an STI. It should be here in June or July. The two other cars I had considered were the EVO and the RX-8.



And at which Mitsubishi store did you have your pre-order deposit?

I never did put down a deposit on the EVO. I was waiting for all three manufacturers to reveal the specs before I decided among the EVO, STI and RX-8. The deposit on the STI is refundable so I can back out in case the test drive does not live up to my expectation.

[SalahK]

Originally posted by StevenMosley


Congrats Salah!!!

I think you made the right choice. The RX8 is sweet, but
we live in MN. The EVO is nice looking to, but you don't
get the bang for the buck that you get with the Sti.

On another subject, one car I never hear anything about is
the 350Z. I drove one down in atlanta and liked it, but
didn't love it. It felt like a Z of old, but I was hoping for
something smaller or faster. It is big enough that it feels
like a slow Vette.

I drove 1 lap of the track version of the Z at an autoX in Miami last November. I wasn't too impressed with the car's ability to rotate on a second gear course. Also the steering feedback was somewhat muted compared to other rear-wheel-drive cars like the Toyota MR2 Spyder and the Boxster. However the car's handling felt secure and solid and the engine had plenty of Oomph. I need a four door daily driver so that automatically rules out the Z. I was driving a rental boxster in BS and i traded cars with a guy in a 350Z. Both of us got blown away by a pair of S2000s. The S2000 drivers were good, but then a rental, triptronic boxster running stock pirelli's, ought to get whipped by a Hoosier-shod S2000 anyway. The results from the autoX can be found here:

http://autox.carlc.com/
click on "RESULTS" and then go to the Nov 23-24 event "AUTOCROSS #7"


My daily driver requirement combined with the Minnesota winter, put the RX-8's 2+2 configuration and two-wheel-drive at a disadvantage compared to the STI and EVO.

BTW, my STI is Black with Silver Wheels.

If Toyota puts the Celica GTS engine and a torsen limited slip into the MR2, you will have one incredible summer car. It might even be good enough to give the soon to arrive, 2005 Lotus Elise, a run for the money.

[fitz]

Originally posted by Salah Khuhro



Originally posted by fitz



Originally posted by Salah Khuhro


I DID IT :D

I have ordered an STI. It should be here in June or July. The two other cars I had considered were the EVO and the RX-8.



And at which Mitsubishi store did you have your pre-order deposit?

I never did put down a deposit on the EVO. I was waiting for all three manufacturers to reveal the specs before I decided among the EVO, STI and RX-8. The deposit on the STI is refundable so I can back out in case the test drive does not live up to my expectation.

Then no, you didn;t.

What's the reason for getting an STI? Is my lowly Spec V scaring you out of DST?

[SalahK]

Originally posted by fitz
What's the reason for getting an STI? Is my lowly Spec V scaring you out of DST?

Ok Fitz...you just opened a can of worms! You insist on being the antagonist, so here goes :sarc

My wife's automatic WRX Wagon is far less competitive on an autocross circuit than your Spec-V. This is because when you press the accelerator coming out of a corner, the autobox thinks and thinks and thinks and then goes. Even though the car is in "1" throughout the course, the car still hesitates big time between braking and acceleration. A manual WRX is WAY faster than my wife's WRX. If the car was for me I would have bought the Manual.

Am I leaving DST because I am scared of your lowly Spec-V? Please don't flatter yourself. I will be running my Type-R in DST at MOWOG 1. If DST is eliminated, i will STILL run DS on street tires. Please show up so we can see what happens. :zzz

P.S. Better yet, how about if I co-drive your Spec-V at MOWOG 1. I can't wait!

[washburn]

Yeah, Baby! Let the trash talkin' begin! Woo, hoo!

[fitz]

Originally posted by Salah Khuhro



Originally posted by fitz
What's the reason for getting an STI? Is my lowly Spec V scaring you out of DST?

Ok Fitz...you just opened a can of worms! You insist on being the antagonist, so here goes :sarc

My wife's automatic WRX Wagon is far less competitive on an autocross circuit than your Spec-V. This is because when you press the accelerator coming out of a corner, the autobox thinks and thinks and thinks and then goes. Even though the car is in "1" throughout the course, the car still hesitates big time between braking and acceleration. A manual WRX is WAY faster than my wife's WRX. If the car was for me I would have bought the Manual.

Am I leaving DST because I am scared of your lowly Spec-V? Please don't flatter yourself. I will be running my Type-R in DST at MOWOG 1. If DST is eliminated, i will STILL run DS on street tires. Please show up so we can see what happens. :zzz

P.S. Better yet, how about if I co-drive your Spec-V at MOWOG 1. I can't wait!

Fine. I'll have my break-in miles on it then so I can drive fast now.

[StevenMosley]

Now stop it kids or else I will bring my Beetle to MOWOG I!!!

Opps, it is not in your class, but maybe I could run the '03 yellow
WRX sedan with 5speed in DSt or DS, but I doubt it will be stock that
long.

Yellow=FAST

[914 Dave]

AMEN to that!

Yellow = FAST !!!

Even for air cooled antiques...


David Parsons
1973 YELLOW 914
Speed changes you.