To shave or not to shave...

[Shrep]

that is the question. :D

I've heard that you can actually extend the life of the tire because less tread squirm causes a larger contact patch. Though I don't know if that's true or not.

I'm thinking of shaving my next set of tires for the obvious gain in traction, however if it's going to reduce the life of the tire, I can't do it.

[phile]

>I've heard that you can actually extend the life of the tire [by shaving]

Sometimes. Sometimes not.

>because less tread squirm causes a larger contact patch.

I don't follow that contact-patch-size logic. :? I suppose on an all-weather tire, you get up on the edges more, but autocross tires don't have a lot of tread grooves and small tread blocks.

How shaving can shorten the life of a tire:
There is less tread depth to use. Pretty obvious.

How shaving can extend the life of a tire:
Some tires will chunk under certain conditions and loading. This can shorten a tire to a shockingly-short life span. Often, the same tire will not chunk under the same conditions if it has been shaved first. BFG had some tires which would exhibit chunking along a certain line. This was called the GOD (Groove Of Doom) An unshaved tire could become useless in an afternoon. :(

On a more subtle level, tire squirm can cause a greater heat buildup. In road-racing conditions, this does cause tire overheating which in turn can cause loss of traction and rapid tire wear.

>I'm thinking of shaving my next set of tires for the obvious gain in traction,

I don't know that there is always an obvious gain in traction. More often, there is an obvious gain in response, due to less tread squirm.

>however if it's going to reduce the life of the tire, I can't do it.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Tires, cars, and setups differ. The best thing to do is get specific advice from folks with your car, your tires, autocrossing on your types of surfaces. I'd suggest asking on autox@autox.team.net. Be specific about your car and tire model in the subject line to attract the right folks to answer you.

[rdub]

on a local SM car,I'd just say no to shaving.(grow a beard haha)
Your car can be adjusted and set up so you won't risk chunking tires,since you're running in SM class which allows for camber plates and wider wheels which help eliminate chunking.
That said Kumho V700s can still be a little fussy

[MNbiker]

First question - are you talking about shaving street tires or r-compound tires?

If it's street tires, only top National autocross competitors in ST classes are bothering. And it's not being done to lengthen tire life, it's to increase performance. Tests have shown the top street tires (Azenis, Kumho MX, Hankook Z212, Yoko Neova) all perform a bit better when shaved. However, tire life will be shorter. IMHO - not worth it for local events.

If it's r-compound tires, the only tire that seems to benefit much from shaving is the Kumho Ecsta V700. As Randy mentioned, they have exhibited adverse wear issues when run full-tread. Victoracers really don't need to be shaved, and shaving isn't recommended for Hoosier A3S05's or Kumho V710's.

-Steve

p.s. If you're doing lapping/track events, shaving could possibly save street tires from overheating as quickly or chunking. However, if you're doing many track days, you'd be FAR better served picking up a set of Victoracers or Toyo RA-1's for such events. Even shaved, street tires won't last long when subjected to the sustained heat of track use.

[phile]

If it's r-compound tires, the only tire that seems to benefit much from shaving is the Kumho Ecsta V700.


That's what I am stuck with. I elected not to shave them since my car weighs something like 1450 (maybe I can find out Saturday...) and my 6" wheels seem more than wide enough for the 175-60-13 size.

[MNbiker]

That's what I am stuck with. I elected not to shave them since my car weighs something like 1450 (maybe I can find out Saturday...) and my 6" wheels seem more than wide enough for the 175-60-13 size.

Slicks, Phil........... S L I C K S

You have at least a half-dozen good sizes to pick from.

[phile]

Slicks, Phil........... S L I C K S

You have at least a half-dozen good sizes to pick from.


Trailer, Steve, TRAILER.

I don't have one, or a place to keep one if I had one.

[Dinkpit]

ok..... anyone have some 195/70r14 used slicks?? i wanna try them at elko... must be dot approved though.

[jdlhonda]

Phile


Drive em to the event, hey why not if it's sunny. If we can drive in Ice and snow a few sprinkles and slicks should be no problem. :D

Or how about steve trailer them for you so all you gotta do is change the tires. ;)


Jason

[SEStone]

The set of r-compounds I have been given use of is a partial set of V700s. Right now the 'rear' tires are a set of Victoracers, used once, with one of the fronts being a V700 of a wider size then the 'rears'. The other front Victoracer is worn to hell (owner didn't heat cycle them before hard use), so it is being replaced with a V700 identical to the new front. Bad thing is the V700 isn't heat cycled, and it isn't shaved (I don't believe, the tread is pretty shallow...they might be that way out of the mold, I'm a go-fast crack n00b). Likewise, I'm assuming we'll want to get the other tire un heat cycled or shaved (especially since I have AWD...the two sizes F/R are the same diameter). Any thoughts? I don't want to screw these up faster than I have to. I was planning on properly heat cycling the fronts before competition use.

Sam

[Shrep]

Wow! Thanks for all the info guys! I'm gonna go with the beard :D

Now on to heat cycling...What's the best, safest, most legal way to get the heat into the tires for the proper amount of time?? What's the length of time to allow them to cool?

[SUV-ETR]

Wow! Thanks for all the info guys! I'm gonna go with the beard :D

Now on to heat cycling...What's the best, safest, most legal way to get the heat into the tires for the proper amount of time?? What's the length of time to allow them to cool?

Wait for a dry evening (the way it's been lately, that could be a problem in itself!).

Mount new tires on the car.

Go take a 1/2 hour drive on the highway. Be nice. No unnecessary turns or hard maneuvers. Just get 'em nice and warm.

Take 'em off and put them in a cool, dark, dry place for at least 24 hrs.

You're good to go!

[psundberg]

Or take the easy way out like I did and but tires from Tire Rack already shaved and heat cycled. Depends how much $$ your time is worth.

Phil