An idea to shorten the driver's meeting

[nick sundberg]

The "pylon dance" seems to be one of about three lengthy parts to the driver's meeting... I was curious if it would be OK to have a big (30x40 or so) diagram explaining what a course workers duties are and how to execute them. I would volunteer to make the diagram, get it weather proofed, and put magneting backing on it so it will stick to the side of the trailer.

I think this would cut down a few minutes off the driver's meeting, and will save the patience of the people that have heard (and seen) "The Pylon Dance" many times before.

[adam cunningh]

i would second that idea, i hate drivers meetings it involves to much standing and not enough seat time, not that i am a big compeditor or anything i would like to get out atleast two sets of three runs, i also think that our turn around time is way to long and that needs to get a swift kick in the arss.

and thats my two cents.

adam the mb racer

[DCM]

Good ideas guys!
We have worked very hard to get events going sooner, and much has helped.
But the drivers meetings can go on too long.
This event, [Mowog VI] got started slowly because our computer/timing person didn't show up.
I have in the trailer a metal tripod stand that Jon purchased for jsut this sort of thing. Go ahead and make up some magnetic signs for the 'pylon dance' that will teach everyone how to perform this function. Our treasurer will reimburse you, Get the receipts.
Thanks for your help and ideas.
DCM
[darn cones]

[nick sundberg]

OK, I'll try very hard to have it by the last autox. Otherwise we can see it next season.

[Jon Kotek]

Actually I have missed the last couple events so if I am saying sumtin that has already been done let me know. One thing I have notice is that each Event Master goes over things diffrently and sometimes misses some things. I think it would help things greatly if someone wrote up a basic list of what should be said in the drivers meetings. Cut down on the ummm and oohh yea's That way everyone is informed quickly.

JOn

[Drew]

Thanks Nick for bringing this topic up; and others for their comments. In the fall is a good time to look back at our events of the season just ending and consider what worked well and what didn't. Then we come up with some new ideas and procedures for next season.

The suggestion of a display board to illustrate pylon / penalty rules is an excellent idea. Most of us needed that explanation a couple of times when we were novices. But not everyone needs a class on it at every event. A display board could serve as a continually available reference. And it could complement a novice information packet that I'm working on to be available for new participants at the novice school and at all events. Even if there was a brief explanation at the display board for novices, that would probably be more efficient than having everyone stand and listen to the whole lecture.

With all due respect to Phil and others who have done an excellent and thorough job of explaining pylons and penalties, I think we could have two parts to the driver meetings. A session for everyone, and then a brief session with topics just for new people, while the more experienced participants get back to event / car prep, etc.

If we shave time off the meeting here and there, it will add up and possibly result in an additional timed run for the day. On that same topic, another area that has been suggested by many people is a sign-up board for event duties, instead of requesting and signing up all the volunteers during the meeting. Looking at a event duty sign-up board and writing your name / car number in for the various tasks that need to be covered should really be the next step after registration. If enough people cared enough about getting the timed runs going, it would rarely need to be brought up at the meeting that there are any unfilled responsibilities. The information packet referred to earlier would have descriptions of the necessary tasks to make the autocross happen. When more people understand how the whole event works, they should be less reluctant to play a more important part in bringing it off.

Drew Baumbach
MAC Competition Events & Sites

P.S. We should also distribute information on basic Tech requirements (Lee Fritsvold's idea) and the most frequent Tech problems. This should help Tech go quicker. Less time in line and fewer inspectors needed.

[Dennis G.]

Ya know we DID invent the wheel but mis-placed it. Now, we're thinking about re-inventing it. At least we keep coming up with the same good ideas. About a year or 2 ago (sound correct Prez.?) we had talked about a check list the event master would use to conduct the drivers meeting, It would cut down on the UM'S and AHH'S and nothing would get forgotten. Also, the first-timers would be given a handout that showed the "pylon dance" but also common but very important details like worker procedures and worker safety. (A tech paper was possibly mentioned then.) But what happened to it? I think it was (and still is) a good idea.
Comments?........

[weidnerpaul]

On that same topic, another area that has been suggested by many people is a sign-up board for event duties, instead of requesting and signing up all the volunteers during the meeting. Looking at a event duty sign-up board and writing your name / car number in for the various tasks that need to be covered should really be the next step after registration.

The biggest reason we can't do that is we don't know what the run groups are (or how many) until we find out how many of each class are registered and how to group them so all the run groups are about the same size.

I had/gave out a novice handout that explained the procedures last year, but it didn't really help, my experience is that written documentation, at the event or on the site can't replace an explanation. One part of the script that was missing the past few MOWOGs was the Kings (AKA Dwight) this is a club, not a service... reminder and I think it would have helped the new drivers understand their responsibilities better.

I agree a master script will help the EM's and shorten the meeting but I still think the biggest issue for more run time is the transitions---even if we cut the driver meeting in half we'd only save about 5-10 minutes.

If we have 3 run groups and run them each two times like MOWOG 6 thats six transitions --- if each one is 15 minutes thats 1 & 1/2 hours of dead time, and I think the average transition is at least 10 minutes.

Since each run group lasts about 30 minutes for 3 runs, if we could cut that time down we could get in at least 1-2 more runs or lotsa buck runs at the end...

All we need to do is have everyone go immediately to their work positions after their run (run, work, drive)

One last thought, how about having the novice walk thru before the driver meeting, there is some time after registration closes free while the T & S people get all the groups settled, we could do the pylon dance then with the novices then too..

[Dennis G.]

Did you REALLY look at your watch last Sunday? It wa s a lot longer that that! But its really no ones fault, we've just gotta fine tune the procedure. It IS true though, turnover time is WAY too long. The event master should make a VERY large point (It will be on his check list!) to tell drivers thatafter their turn driving, to immediately go out ot their working position, or at least be ready to trot out there. And relating to that, sometimes its hard to tell just WHEN a group is really done. With 2 driver cars and stragglers showing up late, etc. How about getting one of those cheap boat horns and sounding it when the group is officially done. It will wake them up and get them moving.

[Drew]

[i]
The biggest reason we can't do that is we don't know what the run groups are (or how many) until we find out how many of each class are registered and how to group them so all the run groups are about the same size.

Is anyone aware of whether there's ever been an analysis of run groups to see what the most typical distribution of classes might be? Have we ever tried simply establishing run groups in advance? How much variation in run group size would be tolerable? Figuring out run groups and assembling volunteers during the driver meeting consumes a significant amount of time, as well as puts a lot of pressure on the T&S people.

If pre-established run groups result in too much uncertainty, maybe we need to (seriously, for once) consider advance registration, which certainly isn't a novel concept. We're running our events in a manner more suitable to events with a third to a half the number of entries we have.

Drew Baumbach

[Jon Kotek]

Originally posted by Drew Baumbach



[i]
The biggest reason we can't do that is we don't know what the run groups are (or how many) until we find out how many of each class are registered and how to group them so all the run groups are about the same size.

Is anyone aware of whether there's ever been an analysis of run groups to see what the most typical distribution of classes might be? Have we ever tried simply establishing run groups in advance? How much variation in run group size would be tolerable? Figuring out run groups and assembling volunteers during the driver meeting consumes a significant amount of time, as well as puts a lot of pressure on the T&S people.

If pre-established run groups result in too much uncertainty, maybe we need to (seriously, for once) consider advance registration, which certainly isn't a novel concept. We're running our events in a manner more suitable to events with a third to a half the number of entries we have.

Drew Baumbach


I am a big fan of pre-registration, but again, correct me if I am wrong but the hardest group to get workers assigned is the 3rd or 4th run group, which is usually the novices (if I recall) who would more likely not be pre-registered anyway.

Jon

[washburn]

FWIW, here's some suggestions:

1) Do three runs per group. This cuts turnovers by 1/3 and does not result in anyone having to stand out there all day. Just like cutting weight is the easiest way to improve performance, so is cutting the number of times you must do the changeover. (Most people I know like doing three in a row better anyway.)
2) Pre-determine what classes run in what groups. This can be changed from event to event based on experience. Massive imbalances can be changed at the event.
3) Have workers proceed right from registration to the worker sign up board. They fill their name in on an open worker assignment. Done deal...no questions about who is working when, where, and if they even worked at all. Have the cone penalty explaination board right next to it.
**Recruiting workers during the drivers meeting is the single biggest waste of time there is.
4) Do Novice walkthrough before drivers meeting.
5) Drivers meeting agenda should be in the hands of the EM. Go through this bullit point agenda QUICKLY. Anyone who wants to speak about upcoming events, has announcments and so forth: DO IT QUICKLY. Give them 1 minute.
6) EM should be on the bull horn 10 minutes prior to the end of a heat calling for workers to check in. This should be done several times leading up to the end of the heat. When the heat is done, look at the worker board (see above) and start reading off names if necessary of people who did not check in for work.

These are some things that other regions and clubs do.

Pat

[phile]

Originally posted by Dennis G.


Did you REALLY look at your watch last Sunday? It wa s a lot longer that that! But its really no ones fault, we've just gotta fine tune the procedure. It IS true though, turnover time is WAY too long. The event master should make a VERY large point (It will be on his check list!) to tell drivers thatafter their turn driving, to immediately go out ot their working position, or at least be ready to trot out there. And relating to that, sometimes its hard to tell just WHEN a group is really done. With 2 driver cars and stragglers showing up late, etc. How about getting one of those cheap boat horns and sounding it when the group is officially done. It will wake them up and get them moving.

Maybe it is time to go back to my Blue-Green-Red group designations and haul out those flags again.

Phil Ethier

[Dennis G.]

GEEZ...What does it take to get the club to buy a $10 boat horn. The pylon counters could give it a 3 second blast when they LEAVE their post. which will signal the group is OFFICIALLY done. Being audible, you could be BS'ing with your bud's, in the bathroom or ANYTHING and it's hard to ignore or play dumb that you "didnt know" it was time to go to work. If if doesn't take a couple minutes off the change-over, I'll pay for it out of my own pocket........

[Drew]

Originally posted by washburn


FWIW, here's some suggestions:

1) Do three runs per group. This cuts turnovers by 1/3 and does not result in anyone having to stand out there all day. Just like cutting weight is the easiest way to improve performance, so is cutting the number of times you must do the changeover. (Most people I know like doing three in a row better anyway.)
2) Pre-determine what classes run in what groups. This can be changed from event to event based on experience. Massive imbalances can be changed at the event.
3) Have workers proceed right from registration to the worker sign up board. They fill their name in on an open worker assignment. Done deal...no questions about who is working when, where, and if they even worked at all. Have the cone penalty explaination board right next to it.
**Recruiting workers during the drivers meeting is the single biggest waste of time there is.
4) Do Novice walkthrough before drivers meeting.
5) Drivers meeting agenda should be in the hands of the EM. Go through this bullit point agenda QUICKLY. Anyone who wants to speak about upcoming events, has announcments and so forth: DO IT QUICKLY. Give them 1 minute.
6) EM should be on the bull horn 10 minutes prior to the end of a heat calling for workers to check in. This should be done several times leading up to the end of the heat. When the heat is done, look at the worker board (see above) and start reading off names if necessary of people who did not check in for work.

These are some things that other regions and clubs do.

Pat

Thank you, Pat! Right on with everything you said!

Drew Baumbach

[fitz]

Originally posted by Jon Kotek


One thing I have notice is that each Event Master goes over things diffrently and sometimes misses some things. I think it would help things greatly if someone wrote up a basic list of what should be said in the drivers meetings. Cut down on the ummm and oohh yea's That way everyone is informed quickly.

JOn


Such a document already exists. I created it 3-4 years ago (think back to how incredibly similar my DM's are - same old boring thing in the same order, eveyr time). It is in a binder I created that has everything an EM needs to know in one handy package that fits neatly in most overhead storage bins. Said binder stays in the trailer but I don't know how many people are aware of its existence or remember that it exists in those critical moments - like at the event.

So we have that going for us, which is nice.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Dennis G.


GEEZ...What does it take to get the club to buy a $10 boat horn. ....

I think a boat horn could be good for getting people's attention for the announcements that Pat suggests. We'd probably need to keep the site location in mind. Midway or St. Cloud would probably be fine. There could be other locations (like HTC) where there could be complaints about that type of noise.

$10, huh. We may need a membership-wide vote on that one.

Drew Baumbach :)

[fitz]

Originally posted by Drew Baumbach



[i]
The biggest reason we can't do that is we don't know what the run groups are (or how many) until we find out how many of each class are registered and how to group them so all the run groups are about the same size.

Is anyone aware of whether there's ever been an analysis of run groups to see what the most typical distribution of classes might be? Have we ever tried simply establishing run groups in advance? How much variation in run group size would be tolerable? Figuring out run groups and assembling volunteers during the driver meeting consumes a significant amount of time, as well as puts a lot of pressure on the T&S people.

If pre-established run groups result in too much uncertainty, maybe we need to (seriously, for once) consider advance registration, which certainly isn't a novel concept. We're running our events in a manner more suitable to events with a third to a half the number of entries we have.

Drew Baumbach

Why yes I have done such an analysis and have used it to pre-establish run groups ahead of time. One of the great secrets of long DM's is that the EM is just filling time until he gets the run groups from timing and scoring. Having that in advance is nice. My list works well at Midway at least where turnouts tend to be fairly consistent. With new classes this year there is new data to gather though. Mine is a year out of date. IIRC at MOWOG 1 this year I had the run groups largely determined in advance and it worked well for all but one run group which ended up a bit odd. Still had to slog through the job assignments though which was a royal pain in the arse. Step up people. Don't be shy. None of these jobs are brain surgery. Not even rocket science.

Barring equipment malfunction turnover times at a place like Midway should never be more than 5-minutes. At MOWOG 1 this year I recall some turnovers that were virtually instantaneous - we gave the turnover a miss and went straight on into the next run group. That would of course be ideal. Naturally it helps to have competitors that are on the ball and can anticipate when the changover will be and get to their apppointed duties AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. Since this can not be relied upon it falls upon the EM to make sure that those who need some gentle prodding get it. When playing the big guy, I typically will go around and annouce the group change while there are still 15-20 or so cars left to run in the current group. By the time they are all done, all the workstations should be staffed and ready to rock and cars from the next group should be in line, preppin' to put some funk on it.

[Drew]

Originally posted by fitz

Why yes I have done such an analysis and have used it to pre-establish run groups ahead of time. One of the great secrets of long DM's is that the EM is just filling time until he gets the run groups from timing and scoring. Having that in advance is nice. My list works well at Midway at least where turnouts tend to be fairly consistent.

Well I think that's great. With the support we're now seeing, and your actual experience with pre-established run groups, I'm confident we'll want all EM's to use that approach to whatever extent possible next year. By "whatever extent possible", I mean that pre-established groups should be our primary method of allocating classes. If the actual distribution at a particular event is really lopsided, we can deal with it then, like Pat said. But it sounds like that won't happen most of the time.

Drew Baumbach

[washburn]

I make a motion that the club allocate 20 bucks toward the purchase of two (2) bullhorn type noise making air canisters. I think we should buy two because the initial novelty of having this will cause certain people to blow it un-necesarily, causing the premature need for a second can. :)

Kidding aside, I think Dennis has a great idea!

Pat