Well no more SI, now what?

[Mnbodyman]

Well as you may know, I had the ceremonial booting from the SI class yesterday. Now I'm gonna in a wierd area where I don't know if I can do D-stock or not. I don't wanna get thrown into STX because I'll just get demolished by the big bad blue wagon. Well here's the deal. My wagon has the stock sedan rear sway bar and 17" rota wheels on it. Other than that it is completely stock. Since the WRX was offered with 17" wheels as an option from the factory, will it still fly in the stock class? It even lists the exact tire size I'm running in my door frame along with the proper tire pressure for them. Well please help because I need to pre-register for Valleyfair in the next couple days.

[MNbiker]

Both the rear bar and 17" wheels move you out of stock. Unfortunately, the way Subaru treats the 17" wheel option still makes it illegal for Stock class. I know a number of folks who have been working with Subaru and the SCCA to try & change this, but it's pretty tough getting a car company to change their sales policies for a few autocrossers.

Here are your options:

1. You COULD run in the Street Tire Index class, but you'd need to use the ESP PAX factor, which would kill your chances to trophy.

2. You could pick up a set of stock wheels (if you don't already have some), throw on some 225/50-16 Victoracers, and run D-Stock. D Stock seems to be a growing class in MAC, of late, so this could be a fun option. You'd need to take off the rear bar. For Valleyfair, I have a set of stock wheels/tires you can borrow, if you REALLY want to run stock.

3. You can run STX and learn to love it! It's the PERFECT class for a WRX, as you can fix most of the stock car's handling weaknesses pretty easily with STX-permitted mods. Many of these mods are relatively inexpensive ($20 camber bolts, for instance). STX was the largest class at SCCA Nationals this year, and seems to have a big following most everywhere besides MAC. I expect STX will grow at MAC events next year, given all the WRX's we've had at events this year.

If you run STX at Valleyfair, you WILL have to run against Harry & I in the blue wagon, but it won't hurt too much. Realistically, you're going to run into at least one better-prepped car and more experienced driver in any class you move to. Plus, you can ride along with me on a run or two, if you want.

-Steve

[914 Dave]

stock allows:

"any wheel may be used provided it complies with the following: it is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed does not have an offset more than +/- .025 inch of the standard wheel for the car..."

So if the wheelsfrom the factory, and not a dealer installed upgrade, were that size, you're looking good for stock.

Drive on-

David

edit-
Steve would be right, for stock you can mess with the front bar, but not rear, and being that he is "Subaru Steve" I'm not suprized he knew the wheels were 16 from the factory, and not 17's.

He's also right in saying, hey, just come out and have fun no matter what class your car fits into.

If I were you, I'd just run it where it fits, not get to excited about winning the class, spend the fall making up your Christmas list of car stuff to put it in a class you and the car would do well in, turn wrenches after new years, and get set for a great next season!

You've heard this before I'm sure, but speed costs money, how fast can you afford...

Pick up a rule book, pick a class you can afford, and try to spend more money at events that upgrades at first. You'll drop more time by driving more, than by getting the titanium valve stem covers...

[phile]

> Plus, you can ride along with me on a run or two, if you want.

Met Council Autocross rules:
======
6.3 Passengers are not permitted during timed runs. (No exceptions)
======

[pinhead]

Originally posted by phile


> Plus, you can ride along with me on a run or two, if you want.

Met Council Autocross rules:
======
6.3 Passengers are not permitted during timed runs. (No exceptions)
======




That rule should really change. Unless there is a serious insurance issue which simply cannot be worked around, I see no point in it. We're not going after national championships here.

I've come to really like autocrossing "out here" in MN, but the thing I miss about MI was the essentially unrestricted ride-alongs. There is really no better way to learn, and it's fun.

:dancin:

[Gspot]

Congrats Tim! :dancin:
I think DS is probably just as competitive as STX. Also, if your planning almost any modification your going to end up in STX anyway. Plus, I'm there. JOIN US!

[Mnbodyman]

Thanks for the quick response Steve. Well I guess I'm gonna run with the big boys at Valleyfair. I can't get myself to take off the rear bar, it feels so nice. I would love to take at least a fun run (instructional run) with you next time Steve. I'll just start saving my money and next spring some back with a bunch more goodies. I'm just glad I got good at driving it nearly stock so I can appreciate the things i do to it. I'll see ya out there Kyle. We're gonna be the newbies in the class.

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by phile

> Plus, you can ride along with me on a run or two, if you want.

Met Council Autocross rules:
======
6.3 Passengers are not permitted during timed runs. (No exceptions)
======


Instructional Runs, Phil. ;)

-Steve

p.s. I tend to agree with Roger that we should discuss changing this rule next year. Even Milwaukee Region SCCA - generally pretty strict about rules - allows passengers. It's a great way for more experienced drivers to demonstrate driving lines and techniques to novices. Plus, we do allow instructor ride-alongs, which are technically not permitted - per Section 6.3.

[MattD]

Just a thought here.

A bunch of people asked me why the Scirocco had two people in it. I don't know for sure if there were two people in the car because I never saw it, but the ridiculous times they were running tells me that neither of them were novices. Can someone verify this and tell me how it got past the start/finish marshalls?

(I'm not complaining NOR protesting...I think ride-alongs should be allowed...just wondering if this slipped past all authority or if someone can explain it for me)

MattD

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by MattD

Just a thought here.

A bunch of people asked me why the Scirocco had two people in it. I don't know for sure if there were two people in the car because I never saw it, but the ridiculous times they were running tells me that neither of them were novices. Can someone verify this and tell me how it got past the start/finish marshalls?

(I'm not complaining NOR protesting...I think ride-alongs should be allowed...just wondering if this slipped past all authority or if someone can explain it for me)

MattD

Neal asked & was granted permission.

[MattD]

Neal asked & was granted permission.

Perfect.

I'm glad someone had an answer.

That car was awesome. :dancin:

[phile]

Originally posted by MNbiker



Originally posted by MattD

Just a thought here.

A bunch of people asked me why the Scirocco had two people in it. I don't know for sure if there were two people in the car because I never saw it, but the ridiculous times they were running tells me that neither of them were novices. Can someone verify this and tell me how it got past the start/finish marshalls?

(I'm not complaining NOR protesting...I think ride-alongs should be allowed...just wondering if this slipped past all authority or if someone can explain it for me)

MattD

Neal asked & was granted permission.

I didn't notice there were two up in the VW until I saw Dan's photos.

I am not complaining.
I am not protesting.
I am not angry at anyone, least of all a driver who is new to our rule book.

I am pointing out that the eventmaster does not have the authority to override this Met Council Rule and give such permission. The rule is marked "No Exceptions". Literally the first rule in the book addresses this:
========
1.1 These rules shall be applicable at all Autocross events except for changes made by an Eventmaster. The Eventmaster may not change items labeled "No exceptions". Entrants shall be informed of these changes prior to registration, and they shall be reviewed at the drivers meeting.
========
and
========
6.3 Passengers are not permitted during timed runs. (No exceptions)
========

There is no wiggle-room in there for an instructor, either. I know that I have served as an instructor when asked to do so by the eventmaster, so if stones were to be thrown, I'd be ducking a few also.

A very careful review of our insurance policy is in order here. We either need to confirm that we CAN change this rule, or we need to obey it.

Under the current rule, if we are serious about sending an instructor with a novice before the timed event concludes, we need to do it up-front before timed runs begin or stop the timed event to do it.

After the timed event concludes, we sometimes have Instructional Runs. Although nobody may have gotten around to turning off the timer, no recordings of the times displayed on the box are intentionally kept and published, so these are not "timed runs".

[MNbiker]

Phil,

You raise some valid issues that need to be addressed by MAC and the Met Council.

I do have some follow-up thoughts, which I'd like to discuss at the meeting Wednesday night:

*I don't see anything in our insurance riders that would preclude ride-alongs.

*Since MOWOG 7 wasn't a Met Council Event, technically we don't need to follow the Met Council Autocross rules. In fact, nothing in the event posting for MOWOG 7 indicates Met Council rules will be adhered to. Now, before you fly off the handle, I agree that MAC has used the Met Council rules as the guide for all MOWOG events. However, nothing in writing says we have to.

*It's worth noting that other Met Council Clubs (PCA, for example) do not strictly adhere to the Met Council rules for their Met Council Series events. The Met Council really needs to address this issue over the Winter, and decide to what extent the Met Council rules should apply to Series events.

*To stay within the letter of the rules, we could always publish Supplemental Rules for an event that override certain provisions in the Met Council rules. I'd recommend we do this for MOWOG 8, to permit instructor ride-alongs.

-Steve

[jgrothe]

Phil

I don't know how the "permision" was granted.
I was never asked about ride alongs on sunday.
I don't know the rules well enough to over ride them.

Jonathan

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by jgrothe
Phil

I don't know how the "permision" was granted.
I was never asked about ride alongs on sunday.
I don't know the rules well enough to over ride them.

Jonathan

The workers who were asked couldn't find you.
I gave the permission.

-Steve

[1/2mv^2]

I'm all for ditching the "no ride along" rule.

Since the people that are really competetive could be classified as "instructors" anyway, and seem to get ride alongs, all it does it hurt the people who are still learning the sport.

So, if we allow ride-alongs, we all win. We level the playing field on local competition, and produce better drivers overall - increasing our national stature.

[fitz]

Way back when I was Rules Czar the question of passengers on timed runs came up from time to time. My recollection (not having notes ready to hand) is that our insurance specifically forbids any passenger other than an authorized instructor on timed runs.

Who wants all that extra ballast when your going for the gold anyway?

[MNbiker]

Originally posted by fitz
Way back when I was Rules Czar the question of passengers on timed runs came up from time to time. My recollection (not having notes ready to hand) is that our insurance specifically forbids any passenger other than an authorized instructor on timed runs.


This is no longer the case, as we confirmed in MAC's current policy. However, we did confirm that no one under 16 may ride, and that those 16-17 must have a minor waiver signed by their parent/guardian.

-Steve