STS Workshop

[RedlineToy]

Last year the STS group got together over the winter to compare notes and try and improve all our performance for the year. We covered alot of different topics and it seemed to do a lot of good during the year.

I would like to start gauging interest for setting this up again. I am thinking January 16th or 23rd. To give us more room I would try to get the room at the Davanni's where we hold our membership meetings.

Let me know what dates work best and also what topics you would like to cover. I would like to reserve the room as soon as possible. Also, I will make a list of the top topics and have that put together for the meeting.

[Adam777]

Planning on running STS next year, just did one event in SI last season, but I'd love to come if you'll have me.

[Rex Jr]

What kinds of things were discussed last year and what kind of agenda are you thinking of this year?

[Teddy.B]

Mind if I were to show up as the subject is (mostly)relative to my interests?

edit: I'm likely out for the 23rd.

[RedlineToy]

Anybody driving STS or related classes is more then welcome to attend. Currently all STS cars in the club are Miatas.

Rex, topics covered last year;
Suspension - springs rates, shocks, bushings, steering
Wheels and tires, alignment specs
Engine - modifications, alot around ECM modification
data logging
Weight reduction

I don't remember everything as alot of us took notes last year, of course I cannot find mine right now.

Agenda this year will depend on what people want to talk about.

Ted, you are certainly welcome.

[Rex Jr]

Anybody driving STS or related classes is more then welcome to attend. Currently all STS cars in the club are Miatas.

Rex, topics covered last year;
Suspension - springs rates, shocks, bushings, steering
Wheels and tires, alignment specs
Engine - modifications, alot around ECM modification
data logging
Weight reduction

I don't remember everything as alot of us took notes last year, of course I cannot find mine right now.

Agenda this year will depend on what people want to talk about.

Ted, you are certainly welcome.

Thanks Larry. Just wondering if it's worth it for me to make the drive from Eau Claire. As an agenda develops, can you post it here? I'd like to come out, if anything just for the socializing, but it'll be a lot easier for me to make time if there will be topics relevant to my budget and level of commitment.

[the tick]

Larry, you can count me in. I think either of your dates should work for me.

Something I'd like to hear about is any type of fuel controller (ie Apexi or the sort) if anyone has any expirience with them, heard anything about them, has a good (read inexpensive... not cheap) alternative, I'd like to hear about it...

[Andrew]

Larry, you can count me in. I think either of your dates should work for me.

Something I'd like to hear about is any type of fuel controller (ie Apexi or the sort) if anyone has any expirience with them, heard anything about them, has a good (read inexpensive... not cheap) alternative, I'd like to hear about it...

What year is your miata?

I don't even want to bring it up.. but Chris could tell us about some air stuff...

195 YO vs 225 KOOK vs unknown azenis (not much to talk about here).

[rdub]

Topics to add
the one year(this up coming season) aero package
legality of your car
setting your car up for Minnesota autocross (cold weather and bad surfaces)

[Adam777]

For the newbs, how about something along the lines popular mods that will bump you out of class.

I know there are a few mods that are pretty popular amongst Miata folks that will put you in a different class, like steering wheel swaps, 1.8 brakes, etc... Although, I suppose that could be taken care of in a thread just as easily.

[rdub]

Also a topic....most cost effective mods
and how to beat that "lugnut civic"...someone has to!

[Andrew]

setting your car up for Minnesota autocross (cold weather and bad surfaces)

Good idea.

Larry, I'm in for whenever.

[MAYcar]

I drove STS in a couple of events last year, can I attend?

[barrowcadbury]

I'll likely attend as well if you'll have me, since most things should be applicable to STR as well :)

Andrew - that avatar is awesome!


~ Michael

[rdub]

yup STR set-up,at least chassis and tire will be similar NA to NB

[murph]

I made two runs in an STS miata last year, so maybe if I'm bored I'll come too, like last year. ;)

[miata#37]

I don't even want to bring it up.. but Chris could tell us about some air stuff...

195 YO vs 225 KOOK vs unknown azenis (not much to talk about here).

I guess I could share the process I'm going to use to put a rear wing on the Miata and what I think it's going to gain us.

We've also tested pretty much every tire out there. I don't mind sharing what we learned if Jay doesn't mind.

[G. Jay]

For the newbs, how about something along the lines popular mods that will bump you out of class.

I know there are a few mods that are pretty popular amongst Miata folks that will put you in a different class, like steering wheel swaps, 1.8 brakes, etc... Although, I suppose that could be taken care of in a thread just as easily.

Here's the great list of what to do. What not to do is a much longer list.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1992-sts-miata/updates/

[G. Jay]

Topics to add
the one year(this up coming season) aero package
legality of your car
setting your car up for Minnesota autocross (cold weather and bad surfaces)


Also a topic....most cost effective mods
and how to beat that "lugnut civic"...someone has to!

Are you offering to share your insight? I'd come to hear your views.


I guess I could share the process I'm going to use to put a rear wing on the Miata and what I think it's going to gain us.

We've also tested pretty much every tire out there. I don't mind sharing what we learned if Jay doesn't mind.

I'm up for that. No sweat on the tire data.


Something I'd like to hear about is any type of fuel controller (ie Apexi or the sort) if anyone has any expirience with them, heard anything about them, has a good (read inexpensive... not cheap) alternative, I'd like to hear about it...

Agreed. Note that these rules too are under review for 2011. SEB has been polling ST/STS participants on possibly adding piggyback control options. Could make a big difference.

[washburn]

Currently all STS cars in the club are Miatas.


For now........

[miata#37]

For now........

Some diversity at last would be nice to see. Though there probably won't be much CRX related info discussed at the meeting.

[miata#37]

For the record, either of the dates Larry mentioned will work for me.

[RedlineToy]

For now........

Lugnut knowledge sharing is always welcome.

[washburn]

Lugnut knowledge sharing is always welcome.

Thanks, but Randy Williams has forgotten more Miata set up stuff than I will ever know. Chris and I will need to work to stay ahead of you guys!

[MechE30]

I'd like to come, even if I'm driving STX I'm sure there's loads of knowledge to be had for a beginner such as myself.

[RedlineToy]

Time is set:

January 16th, 10:30 to 2:00
Davannis - Bloomington
8605 Lyndale Ave. South

I have been keeping track of the topics people want to talk about. Keep adding as you like.

Anybody that wants to come can attend, just know the focus will be on STS class.

See you there.

[Adam777]

Thanks for setting this up.

[Rex Jr]

Will the 2010 rules be published and available by then?

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm impressed by the interest in this, especially compared to last year. While I'm not in STS, most of the STS drivers beat my SSM car (with me driving), so I would like to attend again just to gain more experience.

Count me in on attending.

[miata#37]

Time is set:

January 16th, 10:30 to 2:00
Davannis - Bloomington
8605 Lyndale Ave. South

I have been keeping track of the topics people want to talk about. Keep adding as you like.

Anybody that wants to come can attend, just know the focus will be on STS class.

See you there.

Bump.

Perhaps we could get this added to the MAC calendar?

[MustGoFaster]

If you add it to the MAC calender I'm showing up. :D :p I showed up last year (on the premise of learning more about Miata's) and left having picked up at least a few bits of info that would apply to any car.

[RedlineToy]

Here is a tentative outline of what we will talk about. Please let me know if there is anything you would like to add.

In all areas we will add the focus of autocrossing in MN versus somewhere wram with good pavement.

2010 Rules

Beginner Basics

Suspension and Steering

Engine Modifications
mechanical
electrical
ECU

Aero

Fun with Data Logging

Bench Racing

[Adam777]

Unless it will be covered in the "Suspension and Steering" can we add Wheel & Tire Choice

[gsk8r]

Perhaps we could get this added to the MAC calendar?


Doneski...;)

[RedlineToy]

Unless it will be covered in the "Suspension and Steering" can we add Wheel & Tire Choice

There has been alot of discussion over the last year about tires and wheels plus all the artiicles in magazines. We will cover some in the basics section for you.

[RedlineToy]

Bump

This coming Saturday the 16th.

[MNbiker]

Aero <-------I'll be bringing a visual aid. ;)

[RedlineToy]

Re Bump

[RedlineToy]

Don't forget, this Saturday.

Jay's Aero model will be on display.;)

[the tick]

I'll be there!

[MustGoFaster]

I might not make it. Something about ice, and cold blooded swimming things. But if that doesn't happen count me in.

[Andrew]

You can expect me a little late.

[SaturnRaycer]

I'd originally planned to come, but today my First Sergeant convinced me that it was not in my best interests to attend. Something about a "job jar"?

[miata#37]

Tons of good information shared at this workshop. Too bad I missed Professor McKoskey's lecture on internal combustion engine theory :(

Thank you to Larry Sanders for organizing this year's meeting.

[G. Jay]

Yeah, fun meeting/swap meet. I hope everyone felt like they got info they can use. Thanks Larry for setting it up.

[RedlineToy]

Great learning today and very good swap meet.

Thanks to everyone for all their input and sharing.

[MNbiker]

Per this thread, it appears spun cats are fine for STS.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=306146&highlight=STS2+cat

Andy recommended this one: http://www.etdracing.com/m-tuned/product_info.php?cPath=12&products_id=63

[MNbiker]

For those who are interested, here are a couple threads re. installing a Megasquirt in a stock Miata ECU case. FWIW - miataturbo.net is IMHO the best source for Megasquirt tech info - they have an entire sub-forum dedicated to the topic. Definitely a one-off build at this point, but doable for someone confortable with building circuits.

http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t14200/
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=303269
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123725571

[Andrew]

Per this thread, it appears spun cats are fine for STS.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=306146&highlight=STS2+cat

Anyd recommended this one: http://www.etdracing.com/m-tuned/product_info.php?cPath=12&products_id=63

Phew! I actually have that same cat and I was a little concerned yesterday. Though, I bought it because of Andy's recommendation, so I don't know what I was so worried about... :)

[RedlineToy]

Forgot to ask this yesterday.

Does anyone know where I can get the aluminum stock necessary to make the mounting brackets for a rear wing? Also how thick do you think the aluminum should be.

[G. Jay]

Forgot to ask this yesterday.

Does anyone know where I can get the aluminum stock necessary to make the mounting brackets for a rear wing? Also how thick do you think the aluminum should be.

If you're talking about fastening to the trunk lid I'd recommend very large cast iron cylinderheads for good anchoring. Alternatively some extruded aluminum angle available at Menards or better hardware stores everywhere. You saved so much on the FREE WHITE trunk lid that you can splurge a little on the mounting!:D

[MAYcar]

Larry, I have a old cylinder head from a Spitfire that we could use. Or I have some 1/4 inch aluminum plate that might work.

[RedlineToy]

I am really tempted to try the spitfire cylinder head, but I think we will try the aluminum first.

Sorry Jay.

[miata#37]

Aluminum might be too brittle. Lead works well as long as your mounts are quite large...;)

[JCN]

Finally! There are going to be ricier-looking cars than ours! :lol:

[MechE30]

great info at the mtg. Thanks guys.

[RedlineToy]

Finally! There are going to be ricier-looking cars than ours! :lol:

No rice here, these will be more like full out miata racing wing versions. Think A-Mod:lol:

[Adam777]

Thanks for the great info. Does anyone have a link to the how-too on building custom NB mounts that was discussed briefly? I wrote the name down, but lost the sheet of paper.

[the tick]

Finally! There are going to be ricier-looking cars than ours! :lol:


No rice here, these will be more like full out miata racing wing versions. Think A-Mod:lol:

Though I'm sure none of them will be "effective at autocross speeds" (or however he wording reads) right? ;)

[RedlineToy]

Though I'm sure none of them will be "effective at autocross speeds" (or however he wording reads) right? ;)

No of course not, they just make it look like we are going faster. Its a preception thing.;)

[the tick]

Thanks for the great info. Does anyone have a link to the how-too on building custom NB mounts that was discussed briefly? I wrote the name down, but lost the sheet of paper.

See post #18 earlier in this thread. Andy covers it in there somewhere. might also look up is it fat cat? I have a link to someone else that has gone a similar route at home, I'll post it up if I can find it...

[Andrew]

I think this one is the best known.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=253331&highlight=DIY+NB+mounts

However I have not done it myself. I have NB shocks so they bolt right on! :D

[Adam777]

Cool, thanks. I'm going to build a set of those for my fronts. I will be ordering the parts pretty quickly here (unless someoen has some used ones lying around).

[G. Jay]

At the workshop I was asked about some aftermarket Honda headers that have a short bulge about 8" down from the flange. It turns out we happened to test a simlar feature on an aftermarket header for a single cylinder engine. We found it did nothing measurable though we didn't really spend much time on it. The headers they are on may be good but I'd say the bulb itself at best does negligible harm.

[rdub]

interesting.....

[Jeff (The Alignment Guy)]

FWIW, Post # 4 in this thread shows what I remember the cutaway pics form the 1990s looking like: http://www.onecamonly.com/naturally-aspirated/2253-anti-reversion-chamber-na-header.html

It wasn't just a bulge; there was more going on.

JMF

[G. Jay]

FWIW, Post # 4 in this thread shows what I remember the cutaway pics form the 1990s looking like: http://www.onecamonly.com/naturally-aspirated/2253-anti-reversion-chamber-na-header.html

It wasn't just a bulge; there was more going on.

JMF

Interesting detail. I'm not sure what the details were on the pipe we tested. I still don't see a real advantage, at least across a broad range. It may distort a torque curve a little but I'd still be surprised if it added area under the curve. If it does it'll start showing up in real race cars everywhere.